HC Deb 23 April 1985 vol 77 cc729-30
5. Mr. Sedgemore

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on the Government's plans for the future number of teacher training places.

Mr. Dunn

Provisional decisions on intakes to initial teacher training in England and Wales from 1986 were announced last month. We propose that intakes to primary training should increase from 8,620 in 1985 to 10,950 by 1989 and that intakes to secondary training over the same period should increase from 9,032 to 9,850.

Mr. Sedgemore

Will the Minister confirm that the number of graduates seeking teacher training places has fallen by 16 per cent.? Does he agree that if we are to raise numbers and standards we must pay teachers adequately?

Mr. Dunn

I undertake to look into the point raised by the hon. Gentleman and to write to him. I think he shares our concern that the quality of the teacher is important in the life of the school and in the educaton that a child receives. When CATE, the Council for the Accreditation of Teacher Education, has finished its work, we shall be somewhat further forward in that goal.

Mr. Forman

Adequate teacher training numbers are obviously important, but is my hon. Friend satisfied with the efforts of his Department and others to improve the curriculum of teacher training colleges so that the element of teacher training practice is given suitable prominence?

Mr. Dunn

I agree entirely with my hon. Friend's supplementary question. As he will know, last September we appointed to CATE a number of people who will have a great deal of work to do in that regard in the assessment of courses. He will share my concern that that work is done as soon as possible so that we may bring the results to bear in the classroom, where they are needed.

Mr. Haynes

Is the hon. Gentleman not ashamed of himself? [Interruption.] I hope that the Minister can hear me. He should be, and the Secretary of State should also be ashamed. They have every reason to be ashamed of the teacher training figures, when many of those with the necessary qualifications are sweeping the streets when they should be teaching the children. When will Ministers wake up and do the job for which they have been elected?

Mr. Dunn

I had some difficulty in hearing the hon. Gentleman. Unemployment among teachers rose early in the 1980s largely as a result of the fall in pupil numbers, which has now ended, in primary schools. The number of vacancies for primary school teachers is expected to rise for a number of years, and training intakes have been adjusted accordingly.

Mr. Radice

Is not the real reason why the number of teacher training applicants is reported to be down this year the fact that the message is getting through that teaching is a badly paid job? Does that not provide a further powerful argument for the Government to respond positively to the call from the management side of Burnham for extra resources from the Government to help solve the teachers' dispute?

Mr. Dunn

That supplementary question would be best directed to a group of questions which will be answered together later. There are still a far greater number of applicants for places at teacher training institutions than there are vacancies at those institutions.