HC Deb 17 April 1985 vol 77 cc259-62
36. Mr. Foulkes

asked the Solicitor-General for Scotland how many prosecutions there have been in the last 12 months in relation to traffic offences by heavy lorries; and what are the comparative figures for the previous 12 months.

38. Mr. Maxton

asked the Solicitor-General for Scotland how many prosecutions there have been in the past 12 months for speeding offences by heavy lorries; and what are the comparative figures for the previous 12 months.

The Solicitor-General for Scotland

Statistics giving the number of prosecutions for traffic offences committed in respect of heavy lorries only are not kept.

Mr. Foulkes

Will the Solicitor-General explain why there was selective administration of law and order during the miners' strike? According to the information that he gave me, none of the cowboy coal convoys were convicted of speeding or dangerous driving, despite evidence submitted that those offences were taking place. Will he give an assurance that that will not happen in the future, in particular in relation to the Yuill and Dodds lorries, which got the South of Scotland Electricity Board contract by a dubious procedure, and which are careering—

Mr. Hirst

Say that outside.

Mr. Foulkes

I will. They are careering across the roads of Strathclyde, breaking them up and breaking the law. What action will the Solicitor-General take about those cowboys?

The Solicitor-General for Scotland

The hon. Gentleman reveals what I have always suspected. He believes that the prosecution system should be used for political purposes. That is a principle which I completely reject. There are proceedings pending with regard to one of the lorries of the firm to which he referred. For the usual and obvious reasons, I make no further comment on that case.

Mr. Maxton

How can the Solicitor-General claim that he represents the party of law and order when it is clear that during the whole of the miners' strike the lorry drivers of those companies operating in and out of Ravenscraig, on the roads in Lanarkshire—I witnessed this on several occasions—were clearly acting in the belief that they could do so outside the traffic law without expectation of prosecution? The Solicitor-General should come to the House and give us those figures. They should be available. It should not be impossible to obtain them. They would show that few of those drivers were prosecuted.

The Solicitor-General for Scotland

Once again, the hon. Gentleman shows that he wants to introduce a political element into prosecutions. He expects me to be able to identify those cases in which there is a political element. I cannot do that, and I would never seek to do that. I have made inquiries, as I said to his hon. Friend the Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley (Mr. Foulkes), and a number of prosecutions are pending. In those circumstances, it is best for me to leave the matter until they have been heard before the court. If he says, as he has in the Chamber, that he has witnessed something, I wish that he would go and see the procurator fiscal and provide his evidence of those incidents.

Mr. Maxton

I could not see the number plates. They were covered in mud.

Mr. Buchan

The Solicitor-General is prevaricating dangerously for someone—[Interruption.] We are not asking for political prosecutions. We are—

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Order. The hon. Member must ask a question.

Mr. Buchan

Is the Solicitor-General aware that we are not asking for political prosecutions? On the contrary, he says that he cannot identify lorries which have been stopped, sometimes charged, but not prosecuted. It is there that the political non-prosecution is taking place. We have already had promises that those deliveries will stop. We are now told that they will continue. Yuill and Dodds will deliver 8,000 tonnes a week, despite the way in which the contract was made. Will he tell his right hon. Friend that the chairman of British Steel told me that no such contract would be made, and yet it has been made? The Government are guilty of political involvement —[Interruption.]— in relation to their legal behaviour and their industrial behaviour during the strike.

The Solicitor-General for Scotland

I have already answered a question about the independence of the procurators fiscal in Scotland. In essence, the hon. Gentleman is suggesting that one or more of the procurators fiscal in Scotland have exercised a political judgment rather than a judgment of integrity in taking prosecution decisions. That is simply not the case.

There is at present a civil case, involving Kilmarnock and Loudoun district council, before the sheriff court in Kilmarnock. If there are any suggestions of political involvement, they will be revealed by the outcome of that case rather than by any decisions taken by procurators fiscal anywhere in Scotland.

Mr. Madden

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker—

Mr. Deputy Speaker

Does it arise from the events of yesterday? If so, I am prepared to take it after the statement.

Mr. Madden

I am most grateful.