HC Deb 30 October 1984 vol 65 cc1150-1
9. Mr. Kilroy-Silk

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what contact his Department has had with the committee reviewing welfare provision for children and young people, given its stated intention to review the present relationship between the level of benefits provided for young people and provision for those undergoing full-time education and training.

Sir Keith Joseph

The Department has provided information to the review secretariat on financial support for students, which, as the hon. Member has noted, is one of the topics being considered by the review.

Mr. Kilroy-Silk

Is it not absolutely crazy that so many youngsters, especially in my constituency, should be compelled through economic necessity to leave school early, even though they have clear ability and potential, and join the dole queue or youth training schemes? Would it not make more sense to support them in full-time education by providing educational maintenance grants? Will the Secretary of State ensure that those representations are made forcefully in the review?

Sir Keith Joseph

I am not convinced by what the hon. Gentleman says; nor am I convinced that priority should be given to the very large cost involved, with its very big dead weight. I am not aware of firm evidence that large numbers of youngsters decide whether to remain in or leave education according to the benefits available to them.

Mr. Greenway

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, during a recent visit to France, the Select Committee was surprised to find that parents have their family allowance withdrawn if children behave badly and consistently abscond from school?

Sir Keith Joseph

I am not sure that my hon. Friend's information is wholly up to date, nor how such a system works in practice. I shall be interested to read the Select Committee's report.

Ms. Clare Short

What has happened to the 21-hour rule, which was supposed to permit youngsters on supplementary benefit to study rather than be forced to do nothing? I find it depressing that the Department has made no progress on that matter. Are not many youngsters who want to study being forced not to do that so that they can claim benefit?

Sir Keith Joseph

I am surprised at the hon. Lady's conclusion. I thought that there had been modest progress on that front. If the hon. Lady will send me any evidence she might have, I shall be glad to study it.

Mr. Hind

Will my right hon. Friend consider the problem faced by many 16-year-olds who would like to undertake further education but are stuck with claiming supplementary benefit, joining a youth training scheme or, if they are lucky, receiving very small maintenance grants from local authorities? If education is to benefit that age group, is there not real scope for studying that problem?

Sir Keith Joseph

Certainly the Government are continuously studying that problem. However, there is no strong evidence to suggest that large numbers of young people make their decisions on that ground alone. Many youngsters find it in the interests of their future prospects to continue at school and gain qualifications.

Mr. Meadowcroft

Will the Secretary of State discuss with his colleagues in the Cabinet the possibility of the same amount of cash being made available whether people are in education training, on MSC schemes or—if all else fails—unemployed? Would that not be more beneficial than compartmentalising them?

Sir Keith Joseph

I am interested in the hon. Gentleman's suggestion, but not clear what he means by the same amount of cash. If he cares to write to me and develop his idea, I shall consider it.

Mr. Sheerman

Will the Secretary of State admit that if he does not begin to come out of his corner fighting for education and for the educational aspirations of youngsters people will take away the possibilities and potentials? Is it not time that he stood up for education? Otherwise, people in the DHSS, the MSC and the noble Lord Young will take it all away from him.

Sir Keith Joseph

If the hon. Gentleman and the Labour party recognised that in many parts of the country much better use could be made of the huge sums of money already going to school education, they might do some good.