HC Deb 29 October 1984 vol 65 cc1002-3
44. Mr. Winnick

asked the Minister for the Civil Service when he last met the Civil Service unions to discuss industrial relations.

45. Mr. Dalyell

asked the Minister for the Civil Service when he last met the Civil Service trade unions; and what was discussed.

46. Mr. Campbell-Savours

asked the Minister for the Civil Service what he discussed during his most recent talks with representatives of the Civil Service unions.

Mr. Hayhoe

I met the Civil Service unions on 15 August to discuss the question of arbitration in relation to their 1984 pay claim, and I was also present on 5 September when the unions raised the same matter with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment.

Mr. Winnick

Is it not clear that the association set up to replace the trade unions at GCHQ Cheltenham has failed miserably? Why does the Minister not accept that the overwhelming majority of employees at Cheltenham want the right to belong to a trade union and to have it recognised by management?

Mr. Hayhoe

The matters raised by the hon. Gentleman were certainly not discussed when I last met the Civil Service unions, and I do not accept his comments.

Mr. Dalyell

Why does the Minister not accept the comments?

Mr. Hayhoe

Because they are not true.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

When the Minister met Civil Service trade unionists, did he raise with them the article in September's Assessment—the tax journal —which dealt with the problems of collection in the Revenue? Has he seen the repeated comments by tax collectors about the inability of their departments to raise taxes efficiently? Will he now conduct a full inquiry into comments by inspectors with a view to ensuring that sufficient staff are available in the Inland Revenue to carry out their public duties in the way that they believe they should be carried out?

Mr. Hayhoe

I can think only that the hon. Gentleman did not hear my reply. I said that when I last met the Civil Service unions, at their request, I discussed arbitration as it applied to the 1984 pay negotiations. The issues which the hon. Gentleman mentions were not raised by the Civil Service unions on that occasion.

Dr. McDonald

When the Minister next meets the Civil Service unions, will he tell them that he has decided to abandon plans to privatise the security services in the Civil Service'? Is he aware that after Brighton the public will be alarmed when they realise that civil servant security guards are thoroughly vetted before they start their duties, but that the employees of private security firms will not be so vetted? Is the Minister aware that privatisation has already occurred at the Inland Revenue sorting office at Kew, that the door is left unattended and that anyone can walk into the building at any time? What plans does he have to deal with the matter? Will he abandon these dangerous plans?

Mr. Hayhoe

I can think only that the hon. Lady has misplaced her notes, because question 49 deals with privatisation and security services. I shall deal with those matters when we reach that question.