HC Deb 25 October 1984 vol 65 cc819-28

4.3 pm

The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Sir Geoffrey Howe)

I will, with permission, make a statement on developments during the recess in the negotiations between the British and Chinese Governments on the future of Hong Kong.

During my discussions in Peking with Chinese leaders in late July I was able to resolve most of the major issues outstanding in the negotiations. I gave a progress report in a statement in Hong Kong on 1 August. Copies of that statement were placed in the Library of the House on the same day.

Negotiations continued on the remaining unresolved issues and were brought to a successful conclusion on 22 September. As a result, a draft agreement consisting of a joint declaration and three annexes was initialled on 26 September by the British ambassador in Peking and the Chinese Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Zhou Nan. It was published on the same day in a White Paper in London and Hong Kong and laid before the House.

I should like to draw the attention of the House to the following important features of the draft agreement. It constitutes a formal international agreement, legally binding in all its parts. This is the highest form of commitment that can be given by one sovereign state to another. It deals in considerable detail with Chinese policies towards Hong Kong after 1997 and thus provides a framework in which the people of Hong Kong can plan and work for a secure and prosperous future. It thus provides for Hong Kong's distinctive economic and social systems, freedoms and lifestyle to continue unchanged. It makes it clear that the policies which it spells out for Hong Kong will be stipulated in a basic law to be passed by the National People's Congress of the People's Republic of China and will remain unchanged for 50 years after 1997.

It is now for the people of Hong Kong to give their views on the draft agreement. The House has already been informed of the arrangements which have been made to enable them to do so. More than 2 million copies of the White Paper have been distributed in the territory.

I am very glad to be able to tell the House that the Executive Council of Hong Kong has felt able to recommend the draft agreement to the people of Hong Kong—in the words of the senior unofficial member—"in good conscience." The House will also wish to know that at the conclusion of its debate last week the Hong Kong Legislative Council gave the draft agreement its overwhelming support and similarly commended it to the people of Hong Kong. Beyond that, I have been encouraged by the favourable reactions which have come from many other public bodies and individuals in Hong Kong and by the wide international welcome which the draft agreement has received.

The House will in due course wish to know the extent to which the draft agreement as a whole is acceptable to the people of Hong Kong. It was made quite clear in the White Paper that the draft agreement itself cannot be amended, but the views expressed in Hong Kong on all parts of it will be of value in our continuing discussions with the Chinese, particularly in the joint liaison group. I am sure that the House would wish me to urge everyone in Hong Kong to submit their views on all these aspects to the assessment office.

The report of the assessment office, together with that of the monitoring team, will be published at about the end of November. The House will, of course, attach great importance to these reports when it debates the draft agreement and I know that my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House will be seeking to give the House an early opportunity to debate the matter after the publication of the reports.

It would not be right to anticipate that debate, but the Government have made quite clear their own view that the draft agreement provides the assurances which are necessary if the people of Hong Kong are to face the future with confidence. In the words of the White Paper: Her Majesty's Government believe that the Agreement is a good one. They strongly recommend it to the people of Hong Kong and to Parliament.

Mr. Denis Healey (Leeds, East)

I congratulate the right hon. and learned Gentleman on the skill, patience and flexibility that he has shown in conducting an exceptionally delicate negotiation, which may set important precedents in other areas. The agreement must be regarded as the most outstanding achievement of British diplomacy since Lord Carrington concluded the Rhodesian negotiations and the state of Zimbabwe was born. In Hong Kong, as in Zimbabwe, the role of the Foreign Secretary was critical, because the Prime Minister's intemperate intervention at an earlier stage had threatened to torpedo the negotiations before they had even begun.

I hope that the Foreign Secretary will agree that the Opposition have given him every assistance when it would have been all too easy for an irresponsible Opposition to seek to exploit some of the difficulties, to party advantage.

I am glad to hear that the House is to debate the agreement before the end of the year when the consultations are complete. If, as I expect, the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the House receives representations from both sides, I hope he will agree to a two-day debate so that the matter can be fully explored and all points of view fully expressed.

In the light of that impending debate, I shall not raise any points of detail now. I would say only that in my view it is the best possible agreement and very much better than many believed possible even six months ago.

However, let me make two points at this stage which arise out of the agreement or which are not included in it. First, I gather that there is some concern in Hong Kong that the assessment office, which is responsible for gauging public opinion, is insisting that all comment should be given in writing, properly signed, with the full name and address of the writer. I understand why that is so, but there is some anxiety in the colony that information about the views of individuals might later become available to persons and used for victimisation. I hope that the right hon. and learned Gentleman can assure the House that such letters will remain strictly confidential and that he will ensure that there is no risk that they could ever be used at a later stage to victimise the writers.

The second point is much more general. Inevitably, a change of status in a territory of this magnitude has disturbed some of the older citizens of the territory and led them to consider packing up sticks and going somewhere else. Knowing a little the character of the Chinese in Hong Kong, I am certain that two new millionaires will spring up where every one old millionaire has left.

I am more concerned about the conduct of British business men in Hong Kong. It has been noticeable that the American business community has taken a far more optimistic view of the future in Hong Kong than have some of the more self-regarding and old-established British firms, perhaps because they expect to be able to compete on more equal terms for business from now on. I hope that the right hon. and learned Gentleman will agree that it would be a pity if in Hong Kong, as in so many other ex-British colonies, constitutional change led to foreign firms taking business from British firms which were incapable of adjusting to the new status.

Sir Geoffrey Howe

The right hon. Gentleman will understand if I do not endorse his observations about the Prime Minister's part at the outset of negotiations. Subject to that, I want to express to the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues on the Opposition Benches my appreciation of the congratulations that he has tendered today, and, rightly, for the support that I have received in the course of the many discussions and consultations which we have all had to have about this. My right hon. Friend the Leader of the House will certainly take note of what was said about the length of the debate.

The right hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to the desirability of allowing the assessment office to obtain evidence as widely as it can. It is an impressive feature that in a territory with not many more than 5 million people 2 million copies of the agreement have been taken up. That shows the intensity of interest there. For those who are unable to submit written evidence when arrangements can be made they will be able to do so orally through local offices, although it is obviously preferable for such evidence to be in writing wherever possible. The Government of Hong Kong and I are aware of the right hon. Gentleman's point about the need for confidentiality to be preserved in order to avoid any threat of subsequent victimisation. We shall be taking steps to deal with that.

It would be regrettable if the confidence expressed were affected by decisions hereafter of an investment or other nature which were differentiated by reference to nationality. The key point which I sought to emphasise many times in my discussions with the Chinese is that confidence depends on the way in which the system is established and will behave. It is confidence that will command the decisions of a multitude of individual investors. I am sure the House will hope that British investors will continue to play an active part.

Mr. Russell Johnston (Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber)

I also congratulate the Secretary of State and his officials warmly not only on the agreement achieved, but on the co-operative atmosphere that has been created.

Has the right hon. and learned Gentleman had any discussions with the Chinese about involving Hong Kong Chinese with both sides of the liaison? Has he encountered any objection from the People's Republic to the development by the United Kingdom over the next 13 years of directly elected institutions in Hong Kong?

The right hon. and learned Gentleman is correct in saying that the agreement cannot be amended, but could it be flexibly evolved to take account of views?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I dealt with the hon. Gentleman's last point in my statement. I said that while the agreement cannot be amended representations made about it in the years that lie ahead are appropriate to be taken into account by the joint liaison group.

The agreement provides for the Legislature of Hong Kong in the future to be on an elective basis and for the Executive to be accountable to that Legislature. The Hong Kong Government have published a Green Paper foreshadowing the certain changes in the representative arrangements in Hong Kong. They are now considering public comment on those proposals. The comment that has been made generally gives support to the principle of gradual development of representative institutions, perhaps along the lines that the hon. Gentleman has in mind. It is hoped that a White Paper setting out the reaction of the Hong Kong Government will be published shortly.

The hon. Gentleman made an important point on the joint liaison group. It is clear from the text of the second annex to the agreement that each side will determine the composition of its delegation. We shall ensure that Hong Kong is appropriately represented.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for what he had to say about the negotiation of the agreement and I endorse specifically what he said about the part played by the officials, who gave sustained and dedicated service through many long months of negotiation which became increasingly intense as the months went by. No Government could have wished for more devoted service from the civil servants taking part from Britain and Hong Kong.

Sir Peter Blaker (Blackpool, South)

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that Conservative Members will endorse the judgment of the right hon. Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey) when he said that this was the best possible agreement that could be obtained in the circumstances? I say that because of the detail that it contains and the grounds that it gives for believing that it is likely to last.

In endorsing what my right hon. and learned Friend said about the role that officials played in securing the agreement, will he accept my congratulations on his role, not least in July, when it is pretty clear that he played a big role in unblocking the log-jam which existed, at which time I understand that he earned the admiration of the Chinese negotiators for his inscrutable diplomacy?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for what he has had to say. I should also like to take the opportunity of saying how large a part was played in the management and conduct of the negotiations by my opposite number, Mr. Wu Xueqian, the Chinese Foreign Minister. It was crucial to our capacity to succeed that we were able to establish a cordial, friendly and practical relationship with each other.

Dr. Jeremy Bray (Motherwell, South)

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the agreement is most welcome, but that its effectiveness will depend not only on events in China but on the readiness of the people of Hong Kong to develop a form of government that can continue after 1997? Can he confirm that the White Paper on constitutional developments in Hong Kong will be published before the debate in the House so that we can debate it? Is he aware that it is most important that that White Paper should provide at least as much as is already in the agreement—the election of the Legislative Council and the election for appointment of the chief executive after consultations within Hong Kong?

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that while the emphasis in Hong Kong is on the maintenance of stability and gradualism in the development of representative institutions, there is very little time and the people of Hong Kong look to the House to set the pace for what is already an ambitious time scale?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I take note of the point made about the date of publication of the White Paper by the Hong Kong Government. I cannot give an absolute assurance as to the date, but I shall certainly draw that point to their attention. Clearly, it would be helpful if it could be published before the debate took place.

I know that the hon. Gentleman has thought carefully about the pace of development of representative institutions, because he has taken a close interest in the matter. It must be borne in mind that the general position supported by those who have commented in Hong Kong is one of support for the gradual development of representative institutions. The position stated in the agreement is that we start from where we are now. The precise pace of development will be a matter for consideration in the White Paper and after its publication.

Sir Paul Bryan (Boothferry)

I was in Hong Kong when the agreement was signed and remained there for a week afterwards, and therefore was able to form some impression of its reception there. Will my right hon. and learned Friend accept that there was general admiration for the achievement of himself, the governor and the team of diplomats in arriving at such a detailed, comprehensive and understanding agreement? However, the agreement will not come into operation for 14 years.

Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the maintenance of confidence over that period will depend very much on the conduct of the signatory powers? For instance, the Chinese Government should produce a basic law which is a faithful reflection of the agreement, and it is equally important that Britain should appear genuinely to be committed to Hong Kong right up to 1997 and should retain a great interest in the area long after that.

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for what he has said, and, in particular, for his reminder of the important part played throughout the process not only by the Executive Council members and the members of the Legislative Council, to whom I have already referred, but also by the governor of Hong Kong. The governor bore a double burden, being a continuous member of the negotiating team as well as governor of the territory. I am sure that the House will wish to pay tribute to him.

My hon. Friend is right to say that the maintenance of confidence depends upon the continuous pattern of behaviour of both the signatory powers. The agreement provides for the text to be reflected in the basic law to be introduced by the People's Republic of China. That is an important feature of the agreement. Continued participatory confidence by the United Kingdom is equally important.

Mr. Tom Clarke (Monklands, West)

In our last debate on this matter great concern was expressed on both sides of the House about the Vietnamese refugees who were living in appalling conditions in apparently permanent camps. After his visit, is the right hon. and learned Gentleman now better able to assure the House that something positive is being done about that matter?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

That is not something that arises on this statement, although it is a matter about which the hon. Gentleman is right to be continuously concerned. I can give him no specific assurance today, but if he will put down a question or write to me I shall tell him what I can.

Mr. Robert Adley (Christchurch)

My right hon. and learned Friend has rightly been praised by hon. Members in all parts of the House for his achievement. I hope that he will also be encouraged by the fact that the only overt opposition to the agreement has come from Moscow and T'ai-pei. If both the political extremes are opposed to what is being done, should not the vast majority of people in the middle take pleasure in the fact that the two parties have probably got it right?

In view of what has been said by the hon. Member for Motherwell, South (Dr. Bray), I urge my right hon. and learned Friend to take careful note of what is being said in Hong Kong about the need for the White Paper to be rather more forthcoming than the Green Paper. Can he give us a general assurance that Her Majesty's Government will not allow ultra-conservative elements in Hong Kong to prevent the development of democratic institutions in due course?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I note my hon. Friend's advice about the way in which to judge the quality of opposition in this as in other matters.

My hon. Friend asked about the extent to which the White Paper will go beyond the Green Paper. He knows from his long experience of Hong Kong that there is a wide spread of opinion on this matter. The Government of Hong Kong have taken account of that and will bear the point in mind.

Mr. Stuart Bell (Middlesbrough)

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware of the developments in the economic zone of Shensen province in south China, where about US $450 million has been invested from Hong Kong sources as part of a total of US $2,000 million that has been promised from the same sources? Is he aware that the Chinese Government have every intention of expanding the prosperity of Hong Kong northwards to south China, to the benefit of the people of Hong Kong and of China?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

It is indeed the case—I am glad to hear this tribute from a Labour Member—that China is applying within its own economy measures which recognise the importance of liberalising markets and encouraging private investment from overseas. That is happening in the Shensen economic zone, and it will be interesting to see it happening alongside Hong Kong.

Mr. Roger Sims (Chislehurst)

I add my congratulations to those offered to my right hon. and learned Friend and to the much-travelled and hard-worked negotiating team, and I extend the congratulations to the Chinese team. Between them, the two teams have achieved an agreement which represents a remarkable step forward In British-Chinese relations.

I am not clear about the composition of the joint liaison group, whose head is to be a senior diplomat. Is it intended that other interests such as business and commerce will be represented? If not, can my right hon. and learned Friend say how such outside interests will be able to have some sort of input?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his comments. The composition of the liaison group has not yet been decided, but among its methods of working will be the use of sub-groups designed to deal with particular topics. I think that the intention will be to make sure that it has available to it the people most appropriate to deal with topics under discussion.

Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow)

Does the Foreign Secretary recollect the moving statement by our ambassador in the Great Hall of the People in Peking about the legacies of the past being solved by peaceful negotiation? If we can reach agreement with the Chinese on Hong Kong, and if Argentina can reach agreement with Chile about the Beagle channel, is it beyond the wit of the two of us to reach an agreement on that other problem?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

The hon. Gentleman should take careful note of the fact that the circumstances surrounding these negotiations and those surrounding the question which takes up so much of his waking time are entirely different. There are massive geographical and historical differences. The case of Hong Kong is entirely sui generis.

Mr. Hal Miller (Bromsgrove)

I congratulate my right hon. and learned Friend on both the achievement and the scope of a legally binding agreement. Does he not agree that the scope of such an agreement focuses attention on points not covered? Can he tell us whether any attention was paid during the negotiations to the position of the Eurasian population of Hong Kong, which has made such a contribution to the middle management and infrastructure of the colony, or to civil rights as they relate to such matters as conscription and family size? If so, will discussions be continued by the joint liaison group?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

My hon. Friend raises three points. I hesitate to answer in the House in any general form questions about different citizenship positions, because there are so many different permutations. There is, of course, a distinction between those who are British dependent territory citizens and those who are not. Non-Chinese British dependent territory citizens will be eligible to retain appropriate status under the British Nationality Act after 1 July 1997 if they obtain a British passport or are included in one before then.

There is specific, express and extended provision for civil rights in section XIII of annex I to the agreement, including the provisions of the international covenant on civil and political rights, and economic, social and cultural rights.

The agreement provides that defence and foreign affairs are the concern of the Chinese Government. The question of conscription is not mentioned in the agreement, but that does not mean that there will be conscription. The Chinese Government have certainly not suggested that there will be.

Public order is explicitly the responsibility of the government of the Hong Kong special administrative region.

Mr. Bryan Gould (Dagenham)

Does the Foreign Secretary regard the establishment of a directly elected democratic Government as a potentially valuable safeguard of Hong Kong's continuing autonomy? If so, does he agree that it is important that that safeguard should be well established and therefore put in place as soon as possible?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

That is one of the factors that was borne in mind and which resulted in the inclusion of the provision in the first annex for the Legislature to be constituted by elections. The hon. Gentleman makes the same type of point as that made by the hon. Member for Motherwell, South (Dr. Bray). If the Legislature is to be well established to secure the type of foundation that he has in mind, it must be developed and established, after proper consideration, on a due time scale.

Mr. Robert Banks (Harrogate)

Will my right hon. and learned Friend accept my warmest congratulations on this brilliant piece of diplomacy and on the assurance that it gives Hong Kong for its long-term economic future? Does he agree that the agreement could herald a new era of a close relationship and understanding with China?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I am grateful for my hon. Friend's comments. It is right that the agreement and the way in which it has been arrived at, by sensible and sustained consultation, is seen in China—it is by the Government—as something that could and should pave the way to increasing close and practically useful relations between our two countries.

Mr. Charles Kennedy (Ross, Cromarty and Skye)

I should like to join in the broad welcome that the agreement has been given. Although the Foreign Secretary described the support in the Legislative Council as overwhelming, will he note that two of the unofficial members found themselves unable completely to support it and therefore obliged to abstain? Bearing that in mind, is the Foreign Secretary aware that one of the areas of serious and continuing anxiety is who will draw up the basic law and what it will be? He has suggested direct Hong Kong representation in the British delegation to the joint liaison group. Will it ensure that the Hong Kong view on the content of the basic law is safeguarded, especially to allow a form of judicial review should there be conflict between the basic law and the constitution of China?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

The hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to the importance of the basic law. The agreeement provides that policies which are set out in the joint declaration and the annex will be stipulated in the basic law. I cannot give the assurance that he invites me to give as the drafting of the basic law is a matter for the Chinese Government. However, they have made it clear that the people of Hong Kong will be consulted in that process.

Sir Anthony Kershaw (Stroud)

May I add my voice to those who have said that this is not merely the best agreement that could have been obtained but an extremely good agreement which will enable Hong Kong to go forward with confidence on the basis of pledges from the Chinese and British Governments? That reflects great credit on my right hon. and learned Friend and his team. Perhaps I might add my voice to that of my hon. Friend who used to represent Howden——

Sir Paul Bryan

It is now Boothferry.

Sir Anthony Kershaw

He said that it is essential that we should not appear to lose interest in Hong Kong between now and 1997. It is also important that the British Council, the expansion of which is determined by the availability of money, should be given a fair hearing in decisions that are taken.

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I am grateful for my hon. Friend's comments about the negotiations. My hon. Friend who used to represent and still represents Stroud (Sir A. Kershaw) rightly echoed what my hon. Friend who used to represent Howden but now represents Boothferry (Sir P. Bryan) said. It is important that British investors and traders should continue to have confidence in the territory. The agreement is designed to make that possible and sensible. As a result of my hon. Friend's distinguished position in the British Council, he will be aware of its activities in the territory. I appreciate the importance of its work but cannot give a pledge about Hong Kong.

Mr. Andrew Faulds (Warley, East)

May I convey my congratulations to the Foreign Secretary and his Chinese counterpart on the brilliant achievement of the British and Chinese negotiating teams in forging this agreement? Is the Foreign Secretary aware that some of us find the contents of the Hong Kong Government's Green Paper less satisfactory and hope that when it is transformed into a White Paper it will be a good deal more realistic about the move to truly representative government in Hong Kong? The Foreign Secretary spoke as though the assessment exercise is still under way. Am I not right in thinking that the time for representations has ended and that it is the exercise of the officer examining the papers which is currently under way?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's comments, especially about my Chinese opposite number. I shall convey to the Chinese Foreign Minister the sentiments that have been expressed generally in the House about his part in the negotiations. The assessment office is continuing its work until 15 November.

Mr. Faulds

Are representations still coming in?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

Yes. The closing date is 15 November—seven and a half weeks after 26 September. It is due to report after 15 November. There is still time for representations to be received. The hon. Gentleman echoed what others have said about the democratic pattern of government. That is not the only point of view. The Hong Kong Government will note views that are expressed here as well as in Hong Kong.

Sir John Page (Harrow, East)

Although I do not wish completely to submerge my right hon. and learned Friend under bouquets, may I also congratulate him on the calm, careful and often secret negotiations that he has been able to conduct with his Chinese counterparts? Will there be any difficulty associated with Hong Kong remaining a member of GATT?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I am grateful for my hon. Friend's comments. One of the most important things that we wanted to achieve was the prospect of Hong Kong's continued participation in GATT and other comparable international arrangements. That is provided for in the agreement.

Mr. Robert Parry (Liverpool, Riverside)

Have the Government had any discussions with the Government of Nepal about the future of the Gurkha troops based in Hong Kong? The Foreign Secretary will be aware of the effect on the economy of Nepal of the withdrawal of the troops. Has a date for their withdrawal been set?

Will the Foreign Secretary assure us that hon. Members' questions on Hong Kong will be answered fully and openly? In response to a written question yesterday, I was refused information about the size and distribution of assets in Hong Kong. Why is there a veil of secrecy? May I have a reply to that question?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

The answer was given after due consideration of what should or should not sensibly be disclosed about matters of that type. There are matters that ought not normally to be set out in that way.

As to the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question, consideration has not yet been given to that matter as one of those which affect the future of the Gurkha regiment. There is still a substantial amount of time before the agreement starts to operate in 1997. Nevertheless. I note the hon. Gentleman's point.

Mr. Healey

May I conclude this unfamiliar feast of love by saying that, although I hope that this agreement sets a precedent in other areas, the unanimous congratulations that the right hon. and learned Gentleman has rightly received from both sides of the House might not quite so easily be repeated?

Sir Geoffrey Howe

I take note of that affectionate warning.