HC Deb 22 November 1984 vol 68 cc395-6
10. Mr. Fox

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if local authority emergency planning teams will be involved in North Atlantic Treaty Organisation civil-military exercises.

Mr. Giles Shaw

It would not be appropriate for local authorities to participate in such exercises, which are designed to test central Government's civil and military command and control procedures in a war crisis. But local authorities are normally invited to participate in the annual warning and fallout reporting exercise.

Mr. Fox

My hon. Friend's reply is not unexpected. I understand that next year there is to be a major military home exercise. Will he assure me that local authorities and the civil defence will be involved in it?

Mr. Shaw

I cannot give my hon. Friend that assurance because, as he said, the exercise is fundamentally a military one. However, I assure him that we are encouraging district, county and regional exercises, such as the successful West Wind exercise, which was carried out in the west country in November last year. Local authorities will gain valuable training through such exercises.

Mr. D. E. Thomas

During military exercises involving cruise missiles outside Greenham common, is it normal police practice to incarcerate women and children in mud pits?

Mr. Shaw

The hon. Gentleman had better write to me with a description of what he has in mind. I should make it clear to him, in case he misunderstands, that the role of the police in the protection of that base, and the need for policemen to be there, is entirely due to the fact that some members of the public are carrying on a demonstration there.

Mr. Meadowcroft

Would it not demonstrate the dangerous futility of trying to pretend that there is any protection against nuclear war if the local authority civil defence teams were able to attend those exercises?

Mr. Shaw

The hon. Gentleman is an expert on futility. In the event of conventional or nuclear war, nothing is as important as the protection of local citizens. I hope that he, as a former member of Leeds city council, took every measure possible for the protection of the citizens of Leeds.

Mr. John Wells

Is my hon. Friend aware that the present position of local government advice on civil defence is absurd? If there were a holocaust, it would be ridiculous for the nation to be led by faceless, unknown local bureaucrats. We want people such as Glenn Hoddle in London or Bryan Robson in Manchester, or Mr. Botham —people whose faces are well known—[Interruption.] I am being serious. We need people whose faces are well known to the nation to lead us at a time of trouble, not faceless bureaucrats.

Mr. Shaw

My hon. Friend is right to dramatise the importance of true leadership in a crisis. The Government will be reviewing their civil defence preparations after considering the questionnaires which are now being completed by the local authorities.