HC Deb 20 November 1984 vol 68 cc135-7
4. Mr. Ron Davies

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what is the total number of people in the United Kingdom presently affected in their normal working routine as a consequence of the coal industry dispute.

Mr. Tom King

The vast majority of the country has been completely unaffected by the miner's strike in its normal working routine. It has however undoubtedly caused real hardship in particular areas and lost a significant number of jobs—especially in companies closely associated with the coal industry.

Mr. Davies

Does the Secretary of State appreciate that in the South Wales coalfield for every one working miner there are still 200 miners on strike? Does he further appreciate that a slow drift back to work is a recipe for conflict and that there will never be a complete return to work in the mining industry unless there is a negotiated settlement? If his Department has a role to play in avoiding conflict and resolving difficulties, will he say what action he proposes to take, bearing in mind the stated willingness of the NUM to reopen negotiations? What steps does his Department intend to take to bring about the resumption of negotiations?

Mr. King

I am surprised that an hon. Member who represents a south Wales constituency can stand up in the House and speak about the miner's strike without commenting on the behaviour shown to the general secretary of the TUC when he tried to bring forward a few home truths to those who thought that violence was the way to respond to that situation. If the hon. Gentleman believes that negotiation is the way in which to solve the dispute, it is a great pity that we did not hear his voice a little earlier.

Mr. Sumberg

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many of my constituents who work in the paper industry are suffering because of the dispute as paper mills are having to pay more for their energy? Will he remind the House that the longer the dispute continues, the greater will be the threat to their jobs?

Mr. King

The unattractive feature of the leadership of the NUM, which claims to be fighting to defend jobs, is that while its members have a clear assurance from the chairman of the National Coal Board, it is endangering the jobs of many other people in other industries. I have already given the House the figures. My best estimate on the figures that are available to me is that 30,000 people in other industries have lost their jobs as a direct result of Mr. Scargill's intransigence.

Mr. Barron

Does the Secretary of State accept that the number of people who will lose their jobs permanently as a result of the rundown of the coal mining industry could be as high as three for every job that is lost in that industry? The NUM has consistently advanced that argument. Do the Secretary of State's figures agree with that estimate? What does he propose to do if the Secretary of State for Energy goes ahead and gets rid of 20,000 jobs in the industry this year?

Mr. King

The hon. Gentleman knows that the best prospects for jobs in the coal industry depend on an efficient industry, low-cost coal production and low-cost energy. That also affects employment throughout the country. Such a policy was supported by Opposition Members when they had responsibility for these matters, but now their diaries are consistently too full for them to reaffirm it.

Mr. Wrigglesworth

Does the Secretary of State agree that the great tragedy of this dispute is that, with the reduction in the number of uneconomic pits, we could have an expanding coal industry which would benefit all those who supply the mining industry and use its products as well as the miners themselves?

Mr. King

I very much agree with the hon. Gentleman. I am struck by the fact that some of those most closely involved on the union side of the industry do not seem to believe in its future. A friend of mine in the American coal industry—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. We are making very slow progress as it is.

Mr. King

During this dispute that man has been in Germany selling deep-mined underground coal produced in the United States, and he has done so competitively. Those orders could be for British coal and could mean jobs for British miners if only people had the courage and determination to grasp the opportunity.