HC Deb 22 May 1984 vol 60 cc816-7
8. Mr. Douglas

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will list the terms of reference of the National Defence Industries Council.

Mr. Pattie

The terms of reference of the National Defence Industries Council are, first, to provide a focus for regular consultation between the Ministry of Defence and industry on questions of defence supply and procurement of mutual concern, and, secondly, to define areas of profitable consultation and study and the appropriate machinery to be used in each case.

Mr. Douglas

Given the terms of reference and the membership of the council, will not Mr. Peter Levene's position give rise to a conflict of interest? Being a member of the council, and then hawking round private industry essential national assets such as the dockyards, he will be in a position to advise the Secretary of State, while at the same time being directly associated with the armaments industry, which will have a direct interest in acquiring these vital national assets. Will the Minister come clean on the position of Mr. Peter Levene, the adviser to the Secretary of State?

Mr. Pattie

Mr. Levene is not a member of the National Defence Industries Council. He attended the last meeting at the special invitation of my right hon. Friend. It has been clearly laid down that there will be no conflict of interest between Mr. Levene's commercial interest and any service or studies that he might carry out for the Ministry.

Mr. Michael Marshall

Does my hon. Friend accept that the NDIC has a tradition of being a somewhat cosy club? My hon. Friend's Department is encouraging competition. Is he seeking an input from members of the NDIC so that realism may prevail? For example, will research and development and the difference between high technology and buying boots and shoes be rigorously observed in its studies?

Mr. Pattie

The NDIC does not study the matters to which my hon. Friend refers. It has considered other matters such as ratios and the impact of competition on defence industries. That fully occupies it for the present.

Mr. Denzil Davies

Reverting to the subject of Mr. Peter Levene and United Scientific Holdings, does the Minister realise not that there is great disquiet among the smaller defence contractors because Mr. Levene may have access to costs and prices that will put their companies at a disadvantage when tendering against United Scientific Holdings? Is it not quite scandalous and immoral that that gentleman, who is the chairman of a major defence manufacturing company, will, in less than six months, return to his company with all that information in his head, which can then be used to the benefit of his company?

Mr. Pattie

That is a wholly unwarranted slur on Mr. Levene. The right hon. Gentleman should be aware that, far from the disquiet that he alleges—I should be glad to have evidence of that end if he wishes to furnish me with it—Mr. Levene happens to be the deputy chairman of the Defence Manufacturers Association—which is the trade body for the small companies to which the right hon. Gentleman referred.

Mr. Onslow

Disregarding the unpleasant attack on an individual who cannot defend himself, will my hon. Friend tell the House whether the terms of reference of the NDIC enable it to advise him whether it would be better to restyle the Jet Provost or to run a competition for a replacement? What advice has he received from the NDIC?

Mr. Pattie

Such a matter would not lie within the usual competence of the NDIC.