HC Deb 09 May 1984 vol 59 cc873-4
8. Mr. Cohen

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he is satisfied that the list of responses to Cmnd. 9063 placed in the Library was accurately prepared by his Department.

Mr. Waldegrave

Yes, Sir, although it is a matter of judgment as to what might be classed as a major national organisation.

Mr. Cohen

Will the Minister confirm from figures that he placed in the Library that 91, people are in favour of abolishing the GLC and that 117,400 people are not in favour of its abolition? Is there not some doubt about those 91, as I have an example of an inaccuracy in the Minister's published list? The Wildfowl Trust is included, but I have a letter from that organisation saying that it has made no response. How can hon. Members rely upon the published list? Will the Minister put full details of the consultation in the Library so that they can be scrutinised properly by hon. Members?

Mr. Waldegrave

The hon. Gentleman is quite right in suggesting that not all of the money spent on the campaign has been wasted, as thousands of people have responded to it. On the hon. Gentleman's second point, this is the second major mistake that he has found. He has found two slips in the list so far and we shall check it again.

Mr. Squire

Will my hon. Friend bear carefully in mind the distinction between those who somehow seek no change in the present arrangements and those who seek major changes in the continuing concept of directly elected authorities?

Mr. Waldegrave

I understand the range of different criticisms. My hon. Friend has simplified the matter by lumping them together.

Mr. Boyes

Is the Minister aware that last week Labour strengthened its position on the five councils in the metropolitan county of Tyne and Wear by winning 87 of the 113 seats? Is he further aware that the leader of the Tory group on Sunderland borough council lost her seat? Is that not the strongest possible response from the people of Tyne and Wear to the Minister's proposals?

Mr. Waldegrave

The hon. Gentleman may have been aware that the Government somewhat strengthened their position at the previous election, when they put the matter in the Conservative manifesto.

Mr. Ashby

Is my hon. Friend aware that 23,000 people are employed by the GLC and that there are forms for them to sign to the right and left of the entrance lobby in County Hall and that many employees have done so?

Mr. Waldegrave

It would be quite interesting to work out in terms of the number of letters written to us how much has been spent by the GLC. I believe that it has been an expensive exercise.

Mr. Michie

Bearing in mind the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Houghton and Washington (Mr. Boyes), my colleague from the other side of Tyne and Wear, will the Minister reconsider the proposals for local government reorganisation in both the GLC and the provincial metropolitan counties? Will he bear in mind the test case in South Yorkshire, where the issue was democracy in the metropolitan counties, even though the election was for Sheffield district council, when Sheffield's electors overwhelmingly voted for increased support for a Labour-controlled authority, to such an extent that the Tory policy on reorganisation has proved to be so bad for Tories that some of them are considering whether to vote for the alliance?

Mr. Waldegrave

It must be for the House, based on the mandate of the Government, to organise local authority reform.

Mr. Favell

Has the Minister any idea what the hundreds of employees who are involved in trying to save the metropolitan councils were doing before the threatened abolition?

Mr. Waldegrave

They were waiting for their great opportunity.

Mr. Straw

If the Minister seeks to denigrate that overwhelming majority of people who have made submissions against the Government's proposals, can he explain the original purpose of seeking opinions through consultation? If the Minister dismisses the results of the consultation process, will he take into account the results of elections in the six metropolitan counties last week and the results of public opinion polls in Greater London, showing that a phenomenal 76 per cent. of the Greater London electorate wish to see the GLC preserved?

Mr. Waldegrave

Among the responses, which were clearly the result of highly organised campaigns in favour of the status quo, there were many useful contributions. The Secretary of State has already made several changes in the original proposals in response to consultation.