§ Mr. Kenneth ClarkeI beg to move amendment No. 19, in page 11, line 3, after '(a)', insert 'which is'.
§ Mr. ClarkeThese are drafting amendments.
§ Mr. Teddy Taylor (Southend, East)If this is simply a drafting amendment, does not the Minister consider that, by removing lines 27 and 28, he is thereby removing France's overseas territories? My understanding is that clause 5(1), by referring to "in a member State", under the terms of the reciprocal agreements set out in Council regulation No. 1408, includes France's overseas territories, including French Guyana. We have the ridiculous situation in reverse that, if somebody turns up with a broken leg in Southend hospital who, when asked where he comes from, says Guyana, he pays if he comes from British Guyana, but does not pay if he comes from French Guyana. My understanding is that, by removing this definition of member state, the Minister is excluding France's overseas territories from places in which treatment can be given.
Secondly, I wish to ask the Minister whether, by removing this, he is discriminating against the one overseas territory we have, following the granting of British citizenship to Gibraltar. If Spain joins the Community, I wonder whether we will deprive the citizens 492 of Gibraltar of something to which they would be entitled if the definition of member state were still included. I therefore ask the Minister whether, by removing these two lines, which include the definition of member state, he is excluding France's overseas territories, which would be included if the definition were retained.
§ Mr. Kenneth ClarkeI am grateful to my hon. Friend. If by this amendment we are removing France's overseas territories, I think it is a mistake. The intention is to maintain our present arrangements with the EC, and merely to make a minor change which will extend the present arrangements covering the self-employed and the employed to non-employed EC citizens resident in this country. We do not intend to make any territorial changes. I will pursue the point that my hon. Friend makes. If we discover that it has the effect that he claimed, I will write to him on the subject. Indeed, I will write to him in any case, and deal with his point. If we are doing what he says we are doing, I suspect that there will be another drafting amendment in another place to make sure that our arrangements with the EC remain unaffected so far as these territories are concerned.
I have heard my hon. Friend speak persuasively on other occasions about the distinctions that we draw between different territories. We have EC agreements which extend to all the territories of all the EC countries. With other countries, we try to have reciprocal agreements. In the case of countries that offer free treatment to our nationals, we tend to offer free treatment to theirs. In the case of countries that make our nationals pay, we do not see why the taxpayer in this country should offer free treatment to their nationals when they come to this country. We try to sort out these difficulties, certainly with friendly countries, such as what was formerly British Guyana, and to make these matters fair as between the citizens of different countries as far as possible.
I was not trying to slip something through. These are drafting amendments, and my hon. Friend has now got me rather concerned that we might have our drafting wrong. I will write to him when we have had more time to consider it.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Amendment made: No. 20, in page 11, leave out lines 27 and 28.