HC Deb 02 May 1984 vol 59 cc345-9
19. Mr. Dalyell

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will seek to follow up the initiatives of the then Minister of State, the right hon. Member for Enfield on his trade mission to Argentina in August 1980, after the re-establishment of civilian Government in Argentina.

Mr. Tebbit

I presume that the hon. Gentleman is referring to my right hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (Mr. Parkinson) who, as Minister for Trade, visited Argentina in August 1980. There are no specific trade initiatives outstanding from that visit.

Mr. Dalyell

Since, according to the Financial Times of 12 August 1980, the right hon. Gentleman congratulated the junta on approaching its economic problems along the same lines as the Prime Minister's Government, and since the right hon. Gentleman let the cat out of the bag on "Panorama" by revealing that he knew about President Belaunde's peace plans, with the clear implication—

Mr. Speaker

Order. This is a trade matter.

Mr. Dalyell

—with the clear implication that the Prime Minister was lying—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman will have to withdraw that word.

Mr. Dalyell

By implication, it is a matter of fact, not supposition—

Mr. Speaker

Nevertheless, the hon. Gentleman has been here long enough to know that he should not attribute lying to any right hon. or hon. Member.

Mr. Dalyell

By implication, what the right hon. Gentleman—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman knows exactly what I am getting at.

Mr. Dalyell

The proof is here. I have the text of the Prime Minister's—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I say to the hon. Gentleman, who is a very experienced Member, that this takes up time out of questions and he must withdraw that word.

Mr. Dalyell

Could we return to this at 3.30 pm, Mr. Speaker?

Mr. Speaker

Yes, in the interests of time.

Mrs. Kellett-Bowman

He has to withdraw it now.

Mr. Tebbit

Since the hon. Gentleman cannot even get his facts right concerning the constituency that my right hon. Friend represents, it is unlikely that he would have his facts right, or even be able to regain his manners, during the next 20 years.

Later—

Mr. Dalyell

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

It is not a point of order. Will the hon. Gentleman now please withdraw the remark that he made about the Prime Minister?

Mr. Dalyell

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. First, I was chided by the Secretary of State for getting the name of the constituency wrong, which is an attack on the Table Office. I have spoken in the constituency of the right hon. Gentleman—

Mr. Speaker

That is as may be. We can deal with that aspect later. I must ask the hon. Gentleman now to withdraw his remark about the Prime Minister.

Mr. Dalyell

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."]

Mr. Speaker

I ask the hon. Gentleman to withdraw that remark. I shall deal with the points of order afterwards.

Mr. Dalyell

I said that by implication the Prime Minister was lying, and there is proof and evidence for it, because she told—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I am going to say to the hon. Gentleman—I very much regret this—that if he persists in refusing to obey my order I shall be forced to take other action, which I do not want to take. Will the hon. Gentleman withdraw that remark?

Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North)

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I shall be forced to take other action if the hon. Gentleman does not withdraw. I do not want to do that. Will the hon. Gentleman please withdraw the remark?

Mr. Winnick

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

Order.

Mr. Dalyell

There are references that I can give from Hansard which, by implication from what the right hon. Gentleman said—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I am interested, not in the implications, but that the hon. Gentleman should withdraw his remark, in which he accused a right hon. Member of lying. That is language which, as the hon. Gentleman well knows, is not tolerated in this place. I must ask the hon. Gentleman to withdraw what he said; then we shall move on to another point of order.

Mr. Dalyell

By implication, what the right hon. Member for Hertsmere (Mr. Parkinson) said suggests that the Prime Minister was lying.

Mrs. Kellett-Bowman

Name him.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I must say to the hon. Gentleman —I should be grateful if he would help me—that if he persists I shall be forced to name him, and that is something that I should have the deepest reluctance to do. I ask him to withdraw his remark that the Prime Minister was lying. We shall go on to another point of order afterwards. I am not prepared to have any further arguments. This is his last warning.

Mr. Dalyell

It is the right hon. Member for Hertsmere who has implied this. That greatly saddens me.

Hon. Members

Name him.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I give the hon. Gentleman one more warning. [Interruption.] Will he withdraw that remark, please?

Mr. Dalyell

It is a matter of fact.

Mr. Speaker

I name Mr. Tam Dalyell and ask the Leader of the House to move the appropriate motion.

Motion made, and Question put, That Mr. Tam Dalyell be suspended from the service of the House.—[Mr. Biffen.]

The House divided: Ayes 196, Noes 33.

Division No. 269] [3.33 pm
AYES
Adley, Robert Chope, Christopher
Alexander, Richard Clark, Hon A. (Plym'th S'n)
Alison, Rt Hon Michael Clark, Sir W. (Croydon S)
Amess, David Clarke, Rt Hon K. (Rushcliffe)
Arnold, Tom Cockeram, Eric
Ashby, David Colvin, Michael
Aspinwall, Jack Conway, Derek
Atkinson, David (B'm'th E) Cope, John
Batiste, Spencer Couchman, James
Beaumont-Dark, Anthony Dorrell, Stephen
Beith, A. J. du Cann, Rt Hon Edward
Bellingham, Henry Dunn, Robert
Bennett, Sir Frederic (T'bay) Durant, Tony
Berry, Sir Anthony Eggar, Tim
Bevan, David Gilroy Finsberg, Sir Geoffrey
Biffen, Rt Hon John Fletcher, Alexander
Biggs-Davison, Sir John Fookes, Miss Janet
Boscawen, Hon Robert Forman, Nigel
Bowden, A. (Brighton K'to'n) Forsythe, Clifford (S Antrim)
Boyson, Dr Rhodes Forth, Eric
Braine, Sir Bernard Fox, Marcus
Brandon-Bravo, Martin Fraser, Peter (Angus East)
Bright, Graham Gale, Roger
Brinton, Tim Galley, Roy
Brown, M. (Brigg & Cl'thpes) Gardiner, George (Reigate)
Browne, John Glyn, Dr Alan
Bryan, Sir Paul Goodhart, Sir Philip
Buck, Sir Antony Good lad, Alastair
Budgen, Nick Gorst, John
Bulmer, Esmond Gower, Sir Raymond
Burt, Alistair Grant, Sir Anthony
Carlile, Alexander (Montg'y) Greenway, Harry
Chapman, Sydney Gregory, Conal
Grylls, Michael Parris, Matthew
Hanley, Jeremy Patten, John (Oxford)
Hannam, John Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth
Harris, David Penhaligon, David
Hayes, J. Pollock, Alexander
Hayward, Robert Powell, Rt Hon J. E. (S Down)
Heathcoat-Amory, David Powell, William (Corby)
Henderson, Barry Powley, John
Hickmet, Richard Proctor, K. Harvey
Higgins, Rt Hon Terence L. Renton, Tim
Hill, James Rhodes James, Robert
Hirst, Michael Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon
Hogg, Hon Douglas (Gr'th'm) Robinson, Mark (N'port W)
Holt, Richard Roe, Mrs Marion
Howard, Michael Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight)
Howarth, Alan (Stratf'd-on-A) Rowe, Andrew
Howell, Ralph (N Norfolk) Ryder, Richard
Howells, Geraint Sackville, Hon Thomas
Hunt, John (Ravensbourne) Sainsbury, Hon Timothy
Irving, Charles Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb')
Jones, Robert (W Herts) Shelton, William (Streatham)
Kellett-Bowman, Mrs Elaine Silvester, Fred
Kennedy, Charles Sims, Roger
Kershaw, Sir Anthony Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield)
King, Roger (B'ham N'field) Smyth, Rev W. M. (Belfast S)
Kirkwood, Archibald Speed, Keith
Knight, Gregory (Derby N) Speller, Tony
Knight, Mrs Jill (Edgbaston) Squire, Robin
Lamont, Norman Stanbrook, Ivor
Lang, Ian Steel, Rt Hon David
Latham, Michael Stern, Michael
Lawrence, Ivan Stevens, Lewis (Nuneaton)
Leigh, Edward (Gainsbor'gh) Stewart, Allan (Eastwood)
Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark Stewart, Andrew (Sherwood)
Lester, Jim Taylor, John (Solihull)
Lewis, Sir Kenneth (Stamf'd) Taylor, Teddy (S'end E)
Lightbown, David Tebbit, Rt Hon Norman
Lilley, Peter Temple-Morris, Peter
Lord, Michael Thompson, Donald (Calder V)
Macfarlane, Neil Thompson, Patrick (N'ich N)
MacGregor, John Thorne, Neil (llford S)
MacKay, John (Argyll & Bute) Thurnham, Peter
McNair-Wilson, P. (New F'st) Townend, John (Bridlington)
Malins, Humfrey Townsend, Cyril D. (B'heath)
Maples, John Tracey, Richard
Mather, Carol Trippier, David
Maude, Hon Francis Trotter, Neville
Mawhinney, Dr Brian Twinn, Dr Ian
Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin Viggers, Peter
Meadowcroft, Michael Wakeham, Rt Hon John
Meyer, Sir Anthony Waldegrave, Hon William
Miller, Hal (B'grove) Wallace, James
Mills, lain (Meriden) Walters, Dennis
Mitchell, David (NW Hants) Ward, John
Molyneaux, Rt Hon James Wardle, C. (Bexhill)
Monro, Sir Hector Wells, John (Maidstone)
Morrison, Hon P. (Chester) Wheeler, John
Murphy, Christopher Wiggin, Jerry
Neubert, Michael Wilkinson, John
Newton, Tony Winterton, Mrs Ann
Onslow, Cranley Wood, Timothy
Oppenheim, Philip Wrigglesworth, Ian
Osborn, Sir John Young, Sir George (Acton)
Ottaway,Richard
Owen, Rt Hon Dr David Tellers for the Ayes:
Page, John (Harrow W) Mr. John Major and
Page, Richard (Herts SW) Mr. Archie Hamilton.
NOES
Atkinson, N. (Tottenham) Eadie, Alex
Banks, Tony (Newham NW) Eastham, Ken
Barron, Kevin Ellis, Raymond
Bermingham, Gerald Fatchett,Derek
Bidwell, Sydney Faulds, Andrew
Callaghan, Jim (Heyw'd & M) Fisher, Mark
Canavan, Dennis Freeson, Rt Hon Reginald
Cohen, Harry Golding, John
Cook, Frank (Stockton North) Hoyle, Douglas
Cox, Thomas (Tooting) Loyden, Edward
Dalyell, Tam Mikardo, Ian
Nellist, David Welsh, Michael
Pike, Peter Wigley, Dafydd
Redmond, M. Winnick, David
Ryman, John
Sedgemore, Brian Tellers for the Noes:
Smith, C.(Isl'ton S & F'bury) Mr. James Hamilton and
Thompson, J. (Wansbeck) Mr. Dennis Skinner.
Torney, Tom

Question accordingly agreed to.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I direct the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) to withdraw from the House in compliance with that resolution.

The hon. Member then withdrew from the House.