§ Q1. Mr. Ernie Rossasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 1 may.
§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today. This evening I hope to have an audience of Her Majesty the Queen.
§ Mr. RossWill the Prime Minister take time to reflect that five years ago she became Prime Minister and I became the Member of Parliament for Dundee, West? In that time she has managed to double unemployment. In Dundee, 21,000 people receive supplementary benefit; there are 5,000 people waiting for hospital beds; 2,500 youngsters are looking for nursery school places; and 2,000 young people who left school at 16 are now 18 and are no longer working. What message can she send to the people of Dundee, particularly the women, who have had to bear the brunt of the Government's policies for the past five years?
§ The Prime MinisterWith regard to some of the things that the hon. Gentleman said, perhaps he forgets that inflation is at its lowest figure for a very long time; waiting lists in hospitals have fallen after rising by 250,000 under Labour; more children are in nursery schools than at the end of the last Labour Government; more 18-year-olds are going into higher education; expenditure per pupil has risen and pupil-teacher ratios have fallen; and the social security retirement pension has gone up in real terms, and so on. Unemployment has risen everywhere, and since May 1979 it has risen by 196 per cent. in the Netherlands and 154 per cent.in West Germany—about the same percentage in West Germany as here.
§ Mr. Michael MorrisHas my right hon. Friend had brought to her attention the booklet recently issued by Mr. Marlin called "Privatisation of Local Government Activities" based on the experience in Japan, a country with twice our population? It shows that Japan has fewer civil servants and local government officials, resulting in lower taxes and greater productivity? Will she bring it to the attention of all in local government?
§ The Prime MinisterYes. We are constantly trying to bring these matters to the attention of local authorities. The Government are very much aware of them. My hon. Friend will be aware that we now have the smallest Civil Service in the post-war period.
§ Mr. KinnockDoes the Prime Minister appreciate that widespread disappointment was felt in the House and elsewhere yesterday when she let it be known that she was not in favour of an inquiry into the circumstances leading to the murder of Police Constable Yvonne Fletcher and the events at the so-called Libyan People's Bureau since? Will she reconsider that apparent decision and facilitate an inquiry which neither exposes nor compromises the security services but is addressed specifically to the response of Her Majesty's Government to the information which they appear to have received about the activities of the Libyan People's Bureau since it was established in 1979?
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir. As the right hon. Gentleman will be aware, we have set up an internal inquiry under the Cabinet Office. Any external inquiry into intelligence matters would risk compromising sources and damaging the effectiveness of the intelligence service. Indeed, it would damage the very cause that most of us seek to protect.
§ Mr. KinnockIt is difficult to foresee that outcome if the Prime Minister were to commission an inquiry into, as I asked, the Government's responses to the information received during the existence of the Libyan People's Bureau. Will she accept that an inquiry does not have to publish either the sources or the detail of the information? It is surely necessary for the House and the country to discover what was the level of validity of that information and how the Government reacted to it in their instructions and in the right hon. Lady's instructions to the police and the security services, and in terms of this country's relations with the Republic of Libya.
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir. I have already given instructions for the circumstances leading to the events of 17 April in St. James's square, including the intelligence and other information available, to be thoroughly reviewed. If there are lessons to be learnt in regard to the arrangements for handling, disseminating and assessing intelligence, the necessary changes will be made. It would be inappropriate, on security grounds, to make a public announcement of any such changes. [Horn. MEMBERS: "Cover-up."]
§ Q2. Mr. Allen McKayasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 1 May.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. McKayWill the Prime Minister today consider along with her other duties the effects of the coalmining strike? Will she inform the House what stocks are held at 187 power stations, how long she expects them to last, and at what stage she would expect to involve Her Majesty's forces to facilitate the movement of coal?
§ The Prime MinisterThe stocks at power stations are good and sufficient to last for many months. I hope that the strike will be resolved satisfactorily.
§ Mr. HawksleyWill my right hon. Friend welcome the decision announced this morning of Tatung to create 1,000 new jobs in Telford as confidence being shown internationally in the economic policies that her Government are following?
§ The Prime MinisterI thank my hon. Friend. I think that many other countries have great confidence in the policy that the Government are following and that they are showing it by bringing investment to this country.
§ Dr. OwenIs the Prime Minister aware that members of the Franks committee, let alone members of other Privy Council inquiries investigating intelligence matters, will find it hard to understand how she can say that those inquiries would risk compromising sources and damaging the operational effectiveness and value of the services? If she continues to hold this rather derisory view of external inquiries, how does she justify not at least asking the Security Commission, which was established for this very purpose, to investigate these allegations which she herself by implication accepts as having some validity?
§ The Prime MinisterI think that the right hon. Gentleman will be aware that no one has been more forthcoming on intelligence matters generally than I have, I think perhaps too forthcoming, because the more they are discussed the more I am afraid our sources are compromised, as the right hon. Gentleman is well aware. He is aware of an occasion when that may well have happened. With regard to his specific question about the Security Commission, the commission's terms of reference are to investigate breaches of security in the public service, normally following a conviction under the Official Secrets Act 1911. It would not be appropriate to ask it to undertake an inquiry of the sort now proposed.
§ Q3. Mr. Haynesasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 1 May.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. HaynesIs the Prime Minister aware that the eyes of the nation—[Interruption]—what are hon. Gentlemen laughing at—were on the Libyan embassy during the siege? Is she further aware that the eyes of the nation are on her at this moment, bearing in mind what the media are saying and what she has just said about a review of the siege? Is this another cover-up by the Conservative Government because of the failure once again of the Foreign Office?
§ The Prime MinisterI have nothing further to add to what my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary said about a specific matter. Under very difficult circumstances, after the terrible events of that day when Constable Yvonne Fletcher was shot, my right hon. and learned Friend and the whole Government faced the problem of our people in the embassy in Tripoli. Obviously we had to consider their safety. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will recognise that the matter was resolved by all of them coming home safely and, of 188 course, the breaking off of diplomatic relations with Libya—an almost unprecedented step in the international community — followed by the deportation of all who were not diplomats and the expulsion of all who were.
§ Mr. BellinghamDoes my right hon. Friend agree that the ugly and violent scenes in Nottinghamshire this morning were sad and tragic for a great industry and that they were a direct result of incitement by Opposition Members?
§ The Prime MinisterYes, I believe that to be so. I believe that when people look at the offers available to the coal industry on merit they will come to the inescapable conclusion that the pay offer is infinitely better than anything offered under the previous Government. Pay is about 25 per cent. above average industrial earnings. Investment is over 56 per cent. above that undertaken by the Labour Government and investment in the future offers a bright prospect for those who choose to make their careers in the coal industry.
§ Q4. Mr. Dixonasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 1 May.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. DixonIs the right hon. Lady aware of the petition presented to No. 10 Downing street this afternoon by young people from the northern region about the miserly £25 being paid to those on the youth training scheme? Is she aware that that sum has not increased since 1982? Will the Prime Minister now accept the recommendation by the TUC and increase the allowance to £35? Alternatively, will she accept the recommendation by the Employment Select Committee that the allowance should run at least in line with inflation?
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir. I have no proposals to increase the training allowance available under the youth training scheme. I believe that the service is of inestimable value to young people. It is able to help more young people with the allowance as it is now than it would be if it were increased.
§ Mr. Beaumont-DarkDoes my right hon. Friend agree that we live in strange times when Arthur Scargill, who does not believe in hereditary peerages or in hereditary wealth, believes in hereditary jobs bought at the expense of those of hundreds of thousands of other union members? Is that not strange, since miners' redundancy pay is 15 times that which workers in other industries receive, and miners' wage increases are above those received by many other workers? Is it not time for Mr. Scargill at least to be sincere and support people, such as those at Ravenscraig, who need coal and jobs so that they, too, may survive?
§ The Prime MinisterIf we had a lower-cost coal industry, as a result of the investment that we have put into it, many industries would be able to flourish because they are high users of energy. Whenever the price of coal is higher than it need be the price of energy is increased and people in high energy using industries are put out of jobs.
It is clear that not all the miners think the same as those who lead the NUM. Yesterday 46 pits were working normally in Nottinghamshire, Leicestershire, Warwickshire, Staffordshire, Lancashire, Derbyshire, Cumbria and north Wales. Partial working took place at a further nine pits.
§ Mr. WilsonThe House will have greeted with great disappointment the Prime Minister's response to a request for an inquiry. If a failure by the security forces led to the death of a policewoman and caused concern to the people, if not to Government Members, will the Prime Minister promise that she will publish a report on her inquiry into the case and come before the House to tell us exactly what happened? Will she then tell us who was responsible for any of the circumstances which might have led to the unfortunate events and, in particular, to the death of the woman police constable?
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir. I answered that question, but perhaps the hon. Gentleman could not hear it because of the noise. I said that I had already given instructions for the circumstances leading up to the event of 17 April in St. James's square, including intelligence and other information available, to be thoroughly reviewed. I went on to say:
If there are lessons to be learnt with regard to the arrangements for handling, disseminating and assessing intelligence, the necessary changes will be made.I am afraid that it may be inappropriate, for security reason, to make a public announcement of any such changes.