HC Deb 26 March 1984 vol 57 cc3-5
3. Mr. Wigley

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many persons who have been employed by the Manpower Services Commission in Wales during the last 12 months for which figures are available on job creation and youth training schemes subsequently secured permanent, full-time employment; and what proportion this represents of the total number of persons who were employed on such schemes during this period.

The Minister of State, Welsh Office (Mr. John Stradling Thomas)

I regret that the information is not available as yet. The Manpower Services Commission will be undertaking work this year to provide information about placement into jobs in respect of the youth training scheme and the community programme.

Mr. Wigley

Is it not amazing that, with half the year gone for many school leavers who were on these temporary schemes last summer, the Government still have no information as to how placements are going? How can they monitor the success of these schemes without such information? Does the Minister accept that there are over 30,000 young people on temporary schemes provided by the Manpower Services Commission in Wales? When those schemes come to an end, there are no prospects other than the dole for a large proportion of those young people. In those circumstances, is it not disgraceful that the number of places on community schemes provided for north Wales is to be reduced by a substantial proportion between 1984 and 1986?

Mr. Stradling Thomas

I must remind the hon. Gentleman and the House that the youth training scheme is new and in its first year. It is not possible for the Manpower Services Commission to monitor it until the results of placements arising from the scheme are known. It would merely be inaccurate information. I must point out that people who have had the benefit of these training schemes are in a much better position to obtain meaningful employment than they would be if they had not had the training.

Sir Anthony Meyer

Is my hon. Friend aware that the information that I have just received from his right hon. Friend, that the Colwyn housing survey conducted by the Manpower Services Commission may be extended beyond the 12 months that was originally fixed as the cut-off date, will give enormous satisfaction in my constituency? It provides a useful precedent for adopting a somewhat more flexible attitude towards this 12-month rule.

Mr. Stradling Thomas

That scheme has been approved, and I have noted my hon. Friend's remarks about flexibility in these matters.

Mr. Ron Davies

If the figures were available, would they not be a source of considerable embarrassment for the Government? Does the Minister accept that there is little prospect of young people who are leaving the schemes getting employment? Does that not give the lie to the claim that they are training schemes, and are they not merely attempts to massage the unemployment figures? Does the hon. Gentleman further accept that, in the absence of jobs at the end of the training schemes, his concern should be about the personal development of young people? Finally, does he agree that that makes the cuts in mode B schemes more tragic?

Mr. Stradling Thomas

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman, coming from where he does, is aware, as I am, of concern in Mid and South Glamorgan. In fact, there is a considerable ceiling there. The relationship between mode A and mode B has been rightly adjusted by the MSC to take account of the characteristics of the area.

Mr. Hooson

Does my hon. Friend agree that the creation of real jobs will be greatly helped by the removal of the national insurance surcharge? Does he further agree that the steps to improve company profitability proposed in the Budget are most important realistic steps in that direction?

Mr. Stradling Thomas

I can answer in one word—wholeheartedly.

Mr. Roy Hughes

Does the Minister appreciate that many of our young people are not opting for those schemes because the rates of pay are not good enough? In any case, does he appreciate that there is no substitute for a real job? Does he acknowledge that long-term unemployment still haunts the statistics and that our industrial areas are particularly affected? When will the Government take resolute action over the key problem of unemployment in Wales?

Mr. Stradling Thomas

At a time of recession and enormous technical change, we are seeing real action to try to equip youngsters so that they avoid falling into the trap of long-term unemployment. That should meet the hon. Gentleman's points. We are endeavouring, as much as any Government can, to put the matter right.