§ 5. Mr. Yeoasked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if, when he next meets the Prime Minister of Ireland, he will discuss security.
§ 10. Mr. Flanneryasked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will meet the Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland after the report of the All Ireland Forum comes out to discuss issues which affect Northern Ireland.
§ Mr. PriorI have at present no plans to meet Dr. FitzGerald. But, when we do next meet, I would expect to discuss a range of matters of common concern, amongst which security would feature.
§ Mr. YeoIs my right hon. Friend aware that if the price of improving security in Northern Ireland and reducing the number of lives lost there is to allow the Republic of Ireland a greater say in the affairs of Ulster, that is a price that an increasing number of people in this country are willing to pay?
§ Mr. PriorI have noted very carefully the views of my hon. Friend and of others of my hon. Friends.
§ Mr. FlanneryMay I ask the Secretary of State, first, why he has taken these two questions together? One is a narrow question on security, and the other is a very broad question on the All Ireland Forum. Therefore, may I address myself to my question? Although the other one is very important, they are separate. [HON. MEMBERS: "Get on with it."] Never mind "Get on with it." I shall say what I want to say.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I have called the hon. Member to deal with his question No. 10.
§ Mr. FlanneryI was doing that, Mr. Speaker. The interruptions came from Conservative Members. I want the right to ask my question. Therefore, may I ask the Secretary of State, despite the interventions from two sources, what he will discuss, when the All Ireland Forum report comes out, other than security if, within that report, there is a suggestion that all-Ireland questions—not only those concerning Northern Ireland—could be found to be relevant to the cause of democracy in Northern Ireland which is so sadly lacking at present?
§ Mr. PriorI apologise to the hon. Gentleman if he thinks that his question should not have been taken with the other one. However, the two questions do have a marked similarity.
The answer to his supplementary question must be that I think we had better wait until we see what is in the Forum report before we comment on it.
§ Rev. William McCreaDoes the Secretary of State agree that the Member for Suffolk, South (Mr. Yeo) has delivered a calculated insult to the long-suffering, citizens of Northern Ireland by his reference in the question to the Prime Minister of Ireland? Does the right hon. Gentleman also agree that Northern Ireland is as much a part of the United Kingdom as England, Scotland and Wales, over which neither Garret FitzGerald, nor any other Irish Republican Prime Minister has any jurisdiction?
§ Mr. PriorAll I can say to the hon. Gentleman is that in the House we are entitled to hold our own views, whether or not they are liked in all parts of the House. This is part of the United Kingdom Parliament and, as such, hon. Members can express their views.
§ Mr. WinnickDoes the Secretary of State agree that the possibility of achieving any political progress or success in Northern Ireland is increasingly remote unless 1165 steps are taken towards having closer ties with the Republic of Ireland? When the Forum proposals are published, does the Secretary of State intend to give the most serious consideration to them and to follow them up with a meeting with the Irish Prime Minister?
§ Mr. PriorOf course we shall give serious consideration to the proposals, but as Opposition Members recognise, they must be seen on the basis of the consent of the Northern Ireland people, on which the Opposition have always taken the same view as we have.
§ Mr. SilvesterI recognise that anything coming out of the Forum has no official standing on this side of the water, but will my right hon. Friend take what steps he can to ensure that anything worth while is given adequate consideration by all relevant parties over which he has control?
§ Mr. ArcherIs the Secretary of State's impression the same as mine: that the great majority of people in both traditions are fed up to the eyebrows with the spite, suspicion and back-biting within constitutional politics and with the terrorism outside? Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that what people want from their political leaders is the vision to make a new beginning? If so, has he made known to the Forum that it has a great opportunity to set an example in understanding and generosity? If that is forthcoming, will he encourage the leaders in the Loyalist tradition to respond?
§ Mr. PriorI hope that there will be a response from everyone who has the true interests of all Northern Ireland people at heart. Often it seems that the only point on which the constitutional parties in Northern Ireland or their leaders can agree is to attack the Secretary of State.
§ Rev. Ian PaisleyOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. SpeakerThis takes up time. Does the hon. Gentleman wish to give notice that he will raise the matter on the Adjournment?
§ Rev. Ian PaisleyIt is connected with the question.
§ Mr. SpeakerNot at this stage. I shall take points of order at the end of Question Time.
§ Later—
§ Rev. Ian PaisleyOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Questions Nos. 5 and 10 were taken together. The hon. Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Mr. Flannery) got it right for once when he talked of——
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I am not responsible for what was said by the hon. Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Mr. Flannery). The hon. Gentleman's point of order must be addressed to the Chair.
§ Mr. Flanneryrose——
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough must sit down. Points of order must be for me. I cannot allow an extension of Northern Ireland questions. We did extremely well today to deal with 22 questions.
§ Rev. Ian Paisleyrose——
§ Mr. FlanneryFurther to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. The hon. Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley) is correct for once—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough must sit down. I must say to the whole House that we have a very important foreign affairs debate in front of us. It is rare to have such an opportunity. Many right hon. and hon. Members wish to speak. I cannot accept points of order of a frivolous nature, which have nothing to do with me.
§ Mr. FlanneryIt is not a frivolous point of order.
§ Rev. Ian Paisleyrose——
§ Mr. SpeakerI must say to the hon. Member for Antrim, North that his point of order must be one on which I can rule.
§ Rev. Ian Paisleyrose——
§ Mr. FlanneryI have not finished my point of order, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Gentleman must sit down.
§ Rev. Ian PaisleyQuestion No. 5 on today's Order Paper, in the name of the hon. Member for Suffolk, South (Mr. Yeo), refers to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland meeting the "Prime Minister of Ireland." That is incorrect, as there is no Prime Minister of Ireland. The leader of the hon. Gentleman's party is Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"]—the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland—[HON. MEMBERS: "Ah!] It is a pity that she is not Prime Minister of Great Britain and the whole of Ireland. Nevertheless, the question is inaccurate. It should refer to the Prime Minister of the Irish Republic.
§ Mr. SpeakerI have noted what the hon. Gentleman has said. Does the hon. Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough wish to raise a point of order on which I can rule?
§ Mr. FlanneryQuestions Nos. 5 and 10 are entirely different. My question No. 10 deals with the broad political situation whereas question No. 5 relates only to the security situation, important though that is. It seems singularly unfortunate that the two questions were taken together, as people were forced to come in on No. 5 who wished to come in only on question No. 10.
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is exactly what the hon. Gentleman said when he asked his supplementary question. I told him then that he would no doubt receive an answer to it from the Secretary of State, as indeed he did.