Civil Defence

HC Deb 15 March 1984 vol 56 cc497-8

9. Mr. McQuarrie

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make it his policy that local authorities should act as agents for central Government in carrying out their civil defence responsibilities.

Mr. Hurd

Civil defence is, in our view, best regarded as a partnership between central and local government.

Mr. McQuarrie

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the so-called peace movement, which is anti-nuclear, has now brought civil defence into its activities and is using that to persuade people to join the movement? As civil defence was so highly respected during the last war, and as tremendously heroic efforts were made by those concerned with civil defence at that time, may I ask him to insist that local authorities carry out their obligation to ensure that civil defence plays a major part in the activities of local government?

Mr. Hurd

My hon. Friend is right to say that civil defence is an essential part of local government, because there fall on local authorities many of the tasks of planning and training which could save many lives in the event of conventional or nuclear attack.

Mr. Neil Thorne

I accept that civil defence is necessarily a partnership between central and local government. For how long will my right hon. Friend be prepared to wait before taking action against local authorities that fail to comply with their obligations under the new regulations?

Mr. Hurd

That is an important point. We shall, later in the spring, ask local authorities to what extent they have so far implemented the regulations that the House approved in December. We shall see after that what further action is necessary.

Mr. Kirkwood

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is deep and widespread resentment among hard-pressed local authorities, in Scotland in particular, about the rate-borne expenditure, outside Government grants, that falls on them for civil defence expenditure? Does he accept the logic of the question of the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Mr. McQuarrie), that if this issue is concerned with military establishments it should come under the Ministry of Defence and be paid for by that Department?

Mr. Hurd

It is concerned not with military establishments but with the protection of the public as a whole. The financial argument that the hon. Gentleman advances does not hold water when one considers that much of this expenditure by local authorities is 100 per cent. funded by central Government, and the remainder is 75 per cent. funded, the total amounting to £13.1 million.

Mr. Kilroy-Silk

Would it not be a further unfortunate and unnecessary erosion of local democracy if authorities were compelled to act as agents of the central Government in this matter? In any case, how can they plan properly for civil defence when the Government refuse to tell them of the catastrophe that they are supposed to be anticipating?

Mr. Hurd

We are not proposing to treat them as agents but as partners. Parliament has put certain obligations on them in this respect, as in others. We have already made it perfectly clear that we cannot with any credibility start listing likely targets of an enemy whose plans we do not know.