HC Deb 05 March 1984 vol 55 cc598-9
24. Mr. Renton

asked the hon. Member for Wokingham as representing the Church Commissioners whether he is satisfied with the price, speed and purpose with which the Church Commissioners are selling disused and surplus church sites.

Sir William van Straubenzee

Yes, Sir. Each case is viewed entirely on its merits, and takes account of planning and pastoral considerations, as well as any practical difficulties that may arise in dealing with churchyards.

Mr. Renton

I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. Is this not an area in which the Church is very much torn between God and mammon, for is not the impression often given that the Church Commissioners are usually interested only in selling, often after long delays, for the highest price, without any consideration of the purpose to which the disused church or its site will be put? Could he, therefore, give a clearer statement of policy from the Church Commissioners?

Sir William van Straubenzee

Delays are often, although not always, caused by considerations that the House is keen the Church Commissioners shall bear in mind, namely, the architectural merit of the building or of its contents, and finding alternative suitable uses. The Pastoral Measure gives power to the Commissioners to dispose of redundant churches, and their sites, as they think fit. They are not necessarily bound always to go for the best price, although they must have regard to the dioceses and redundant churches fund's requirements.

Mr. Watson

Is my hon. Friend aware that it is not just the disposal of old church buildings that can be the subject of delay? Delays can occur in transferring old church primary school buildings for wider community purposes. Will my hon. Friend do what he can to speed things up?

Sir William van Straubenzee

I answer questions here, as you know, Mr. Speaker, only on matters for which the Church Commissioners are responsible. With respect to my hon. Friend, I do not think that the cases he has in mind are matters for the diocese. If he would care to write to me, I shall make sure that his letter goes to the right place.

Mr. Ryman

The hon. Gentleman answers questions only for which the Church Commissioners have direct responsibilities, but is he aware that the Church Commissioners have enormous influence in many spheres? In that capacity, has he any views on the absurd speech made by an obscure junior Minister about the political speeches of bishops?

Sir William van Straubenzee

Of one thing I am absolutely clear. I am not responsible for my hon. Friend's speech. During Lent, I think that one should try to give up something that one would miss rather too much.

Mr. Greenway

It is, of course, Ash Wednesday during this week, so Lent has not quite begun, which makes my hon. Friend's remarks the more interesting.

Would my hon. Friend say for what reasons a church is taken out of use, and whether those reasons have changed over the past 20 years?

Sir William van Straubenzee

It is not possible for me to give a truthful and accurate generalised answer to my hon. Friend about an innumerable variety of different circumstances. However, generally speaking, it is because the church is pastorally no longer required. If my hon. Friend has any special case in mind, I shall be happy to do my best to answer his question in more detail.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

In relation to the sale of stained glass windows from disused churches, is it not true that Great Britain has developed a formidable trade in the export of what is our heritage? Why does the Church not intervene to prevent those exports and ensure that the stained glass windows are fixed to other buildings in the United Kingdom?

Sir William van Straubenzee

I should indeed be worried if I thought that valuable, ancient glass was not being made use of or put into careful storage. If the hon. Gentleman has a specific case in mind, I should be happy to look into it.

Mr. Cormack

Will my hon. Friend take a little time during Lent to instruct certain people on how to answer questions?

Sir William van Straubenzee

Generally, Ministers are more fortunate because, on the whole, Mr. Speaker, you keep supplementary questions for Ministers rather more under control.