Arts Body (Funding) (Hansard, 5 March 1984)

§ 33. Mr. Freud
asked the Under-Secretary of State answering in respect of the Arts how many applications the Minister for the Arts has had for consideration as an arts body of national significance to be funded outwith local authorities.

§ Mr. Waldegrave
Representations have been received from a variety of sources that 12 named performing arts bodies should be added to the list of candidates for central funding in paragraph 8 of the consultation document on the arts. Similar suggestions have also been made for some museum services, but often without naming the particular institutions which would or might be affected.

§ Mr. Freud
Does the Minister accept that, by having a national list, one is creating a two-tier system in the arts, and that it will be very difficult for a locally funded theatre, museum or art gallery to compete with one which need look only to his Department for support?

§ Mr. Waldegrave
I suppose that in a sense there has always been a central list. There are aspects that the Arts Council supports. My noble Friend has suggested that there are a number of organisations of such importance that we assume that the Arts Council would want to take responsibility for their support. However, there is real point in what the hon. Gentleman says, and that is why we do not want to extend the list too far.

§ Mr. Buchan
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I refer to an earlier question—

§ Mr. Speaker
Yes, provided that the hon. Member is not seeking to get an extension of Question Time. In other words, it must be a matter for me, not for the Minister.

§ Mr. Buchan
I am not seeking to get an extension of Question Time, Mr. Speaker, although that would not be a bad idea. My point of order is about the propriety or otherwise of placing in the Library the details of representations that have been made to the Government. In this case, is it not a fact that every organisation that has made representations would be willing—sadly, none has said that it would not — to have its representations deposited——

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I must stop the hon. Gentleman because I think that he is doing what I was hoping he would not do. He must, on a point of order, raise a question that I can answer. It is not a matter for me whether documents are placed in the Library, unless they are papers laid by Act and the like.

§ Mr. Buchan
That is precisely why I am raising the matter with you, Mr. Speaker. You have the care not only of the interests of Members of this House, but of the practice of the Government in relation to. hon. Members. On this occasion, documents which come from the Government — unless, presumably, they are marked "Secret", and these are not—would be appropriate for depositing in the Library. Without those documents being so deposited, the wellbeing of hon. Members will be at stake, in that the information and knowledge that are necessary for Back Benchers on both sides of the House will not be available. I hope that you, will make the 605 necessary representations to the Government on our behalf. You have eyes to see and ears to hear. I should be grateful if you would also have a mouth with which to speak on our behalf and have those documents placed in the Library.

§ Mr. Speaker
The point that the hon. Member raises is not one for me, unless, as I said, he is referring to documents laid under an Act. If the Government voluntarily decide to place in the Library only a list of representations, that is a matter for them.

§ Mr. Tony Banks
Further to the point of order raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley, South (Mr. Buchan), may I remind you, Mr. Speaker, that you look after the welfare and interests of Back Benchers on both sides of the House? Surely a central part of that interest must be the free and unfettered access by Back Benchers 606 to information when they are to be asked to make important decisions arising out of a series of Government consultations.
You will be aware, Mr. Speaker, that I have been to your office on a number of occasions to find a formula by which we might have access to such information. The reason why the Minister will not let us see the information on this occasion is that it does not support the Government's case, either in the arts or in terms of streamlining the cities. I suggest to you, Mr. Speaker, with respect, that if you would put pressure on Ministers, so that we could have access to the information, we should be able to come to a considered opinion rather than one based on being kept in ignorance by the Government.

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. Gentleman is aware that I am bound by our Standing Orders. I have only limited powers in this respect, and not over the matter that he raises.