Political Initiative (Hansard, 28 June 1984)

§ 5. Mr. Dubs
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he has any new proposals to tackle the political difficulties in Northern Ireland.

6. Mr. MacKay
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a further statement on the future of local government in the Province.

§ 15. Sir John Biggs-Davison
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what are his further plans for giving the people of Northern Ireland more say in their own affairs.

§ 18. Mr. Parry
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the future of local government in Northern Ireland.

§ Mr. Prior
The Government remain of the view that the restoration of powers to elected representatives in Northern Ireland offers the best hope of progress. We shall consider carefully constructive proposals for achieving greater stability. I have read with interest recent proposals that have been put forward, which the House will have the opportunity of debating shortly, and which I hope to discuss further with the Northern Ireland parties.

§ Mr. Dubs
Is the Secretary of State aware that the continuation of his present policies, combined with his lukewarm approach to the report of the New Ireland Forum, hardly creates confidence that he is determined to do anything about the tragic problems of Northern Ireland? Is not a new initiative called for if the right hon. Gentleman is unwilling to put more weight than he has today on the report of the New Ireland Forum?

§ Mr. Prior
I think that we had better leave most of this matter until our discussions on Monday, but the fact is that the New Ireland Forum is based on the consent of the people of Northern Ireland. The hon. Gentleman must know, as the House must know, that consent would not be forthcoming for any of the suggested solutions in that report. That is why we have to go on looking for solutions within Northern Ireland which take into account the legitimate interests of both the majority and minority populations. We shall continue to do that.

§ Mr. Andrew MacKay
If we are supposed to believe in more positive and realistic political participation in the Province, is it not time that we considered giving more powers to local government there?

§ Mr. Prior
We could do that only in the context of other arrangements. However, I do not rule it out as part of a suggested move forward that would have to contain other elements at the same time.

§ Sir John Biggs-Davison
Has not the New Ireland Forum produced nothing new except three old, unacceptable options which have been around since de Valera? However, could not all responsible parties in the Province unite in support of the way forward, set out in the document of that name?

§ Mr. Prior
I do not think that that is a fair view of the report of the New Ireland Forum, which goes considerably further than ever before to recognise the Britishness of the Unionists and their right, in a Northern Ireland context, to remain part of the United Kingdom. One must look at the report not only for what is written in it, but for what is not 1149 written in it, which was previously part of the policy of the Southern Government. Therefore, a combination of what it is now saying and what the Unionist document says gives a chance, at any rate, for progress to be made.

§ Mr. William Ross
Will the Secretary of State be careful not to take too much comfort from the recent small drop in electoral support for Sinn Fein, because over the past 35 or 40 years the vote of Sinn Fein and other extreme Republican parties in Northern Ireland has varied from about 75,000 to about 155,000? Therefore, there is nothing unusual in the result that we have just seen. Will the Secretary of State accept that the politics of protest and complaint are particularly apt in Northern Ireland when the gap between the ruled and the rulers, even in local government matters, is as wide as it is now, and people have great difficulty in identifying who is responsible for what?

§ Mr. Prior
I take note of what the hon. Gentleman has said.

§ Mr. McNamara
Does the Secretary of State agree that the major political difficulty facing the Government in Northern Ireland is the refusal of many sections of the community, both Nationalist and Unionist, to accept the present system of administration of justice there? In explaining the reasons for the length of remand, he has now changed his ground from the original claim that it was because the counsel of choice could not be obtained to the argument that it is because the nature of the charges is changed from day to day. After two years and five informers, is it not clear that the Government's basic policy is for internment without trial under another name—that of remand from day to day?

§ Mr. Prior
That is a travesty of what we seek to achieve. In no way do we seek through the remand system to have detention without trial. Every effort is being made to reduce the time spent on remand and we are having some success in that. We are studying a number of aspects of the operation of the Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act. All these matters will be relevant to next week's debate and perhaps to a discussion of the Baker report in due course.

Mr. John Mark Taylor
Was it not part of the original intention that the Northern Ireland Assembly should progressively assume local government functions? Does the Secretary of State retain any optimism at all about that?

§ Mr. Prior
The Assembly was not necessarily intended to take over local government functions, but if suggestions come forward to that end we shall, of course, consider them carefully, together with other suggestions which would have to be made at the same time.