HC Deb 21 June 1984 vol 62 cc469-70
10. Mr. Knox

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many men and how many women are in prison at present.

The Minister of State, Home Office (Mr. David Waddington)

On 15 June 1984 there were 42,743 males and 1,537 females held in prison department custody in England and Wales.

Mr. Knox

Does my hon. and learned Friend think it necessary or desirable to lock up so many people in prison?

Mr. Waddington

It is obvious that we should always examine alternatives to custody. My hon. Friend will be aware that, in the Criminal Justice Act 1982, the courts were given new powers to impose non-custodial sentences.

Mrs. Renée Short

Would not any reforming Home Secretary be absolutely determined that, except for capital offences—which women do not normally commit—women should not be put in prison? Does the Minister agree that it is pointless putting men or women in prison for drugs or drink offences and that what we really need are far more facilities in the community to keep women out of prison?

Mr. Waddington

As I have already said, we should always examine the possibility of non-custodial forms of treatment, but it is unrealistic to imagine that we shall swiftly arrive at a state of affairs in which it will not be necessary to send some women to prison. That is inevitable.

Mr. Rowe

When my hon. and learned Friend examines alternatives to custodial treatment, will he see how much scope there is for extending the requirement for people to report for a number of hours during the week, as that is often a much more effective way in which to deal with people than taking them out of employment for long periods of time, thus creating the problem of how they use their spare time?

Mr. Waddington

That is obviously one of the many matters that ought to be considered and kept under review.

Mr. Corbett

Is it not the case that one reason why there are more men than women in prison lies in the burgeoning crime that has occurred under this law and order Government? When will the Government take real steps to bring down the level of crime?

Mr. Waddington

The hon. Gentleman is talking absolute nonsense. He should be aware that, on 1 July this year, there will be a reduction in the minimum qualifying period for parole, which might mean 7,500 additional adults and 2,700 young offenders getting parole. The hon. Gentleman knows that the courts now have great powers to impose non-custodial sentences, and efforts have been made to reduce the number of fine defaulters who go to prison. That is not the record of a Government who do not recognise that we should try to reduce the prison population wherever possible.

Mr. Couchman

What progress has my hon. and learned Friend been able to make to empty prisons of alcoholics, inadequates and the mentally ill?

Mr. Waddington

It is most important that we always consider the possibility of non-custodial forms of treatment. It is our job to put as many forms of treatment as possible at the disposal of higher courts and magistrates.

Mr. Alex Carlile

As there are many mentally ill people among the 46,000 who are in prison, does the Minister agree that it is scandalous that there are only about 25 registered mental nurses employed in the prison service? Will the Government undertake a thoroughgoing review to ensure that proper mental nursing provision is available in the prison service?

Mr. Waddington

I have no doubt that the hon. and learned Gentleman raises an important point, but it goes far wide of this question. Perhaps he would like to table a question on the matter at another time.