PROVISION OF CATTLE-GRIDS AND BY-PASSES (Hansard, 20 June 1984)

§ Sir Hector Monro
I shall be brief. Clause 40 implies that the highway authority will install cattle grids, but clause 46, which deals with who is to pay for them, would seem to sound the death knell for any well-intentioned ideas about them. I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will comment on that. Also, are we dealing only with B and C class roads, as fairly strong views seem to be held by the Minister about A class roads?
In this day and age there is much more interest in conservation than there was before, and I am surprised that my hon. Friend has not followed up the suggestion that I made some 15 years ago in a debate in the Scottish Grand Committee. I refer to my suggestion for ramps for hedgehogs. All that is needed is a simple addition to the Bill. I hope that my hon. Friend will deal with that point on Report. A ramp for small animals should be available in every cattle grid which is installed where the local authority is responsible. Not only hedgehogs, but doormice, rabbits, and so on, would then have some 376 opportunity of escaping if, by mischance, they fell through the bars into the well below. Otherwise, they could be trapped for the rest of their rather brief lives. I hope that my hon. Friend will contemplate making an amendment to the Bill, as I am sure that all those interested in wild life and conservation would welcome it.

§ Mr. Home Robertson
I am glad to have this opportunity of supporting the comments made by the lion. Member for Dumfries (Sir H. Monro). Like him, I have raised similar points in Committee stages on several Bills. Indeed, I am glad to see the hon. Member for Tayside, North (Mr. Walker) indicating assent. He evidently remembers earlier exchanges over the construction of cattle grids.
The hon. Member for Dumfries is quite right. Cattle grids can be a serious hazard to small animals, as they can fall into them. I understand that there is now a British standard to cover that point. We are supposed to be concerned about conservation, so we must change the specifications of cattle grids to ensure that, first, there is a ramp so that, if a small animal falls into the pit, it has some way of climbing out. Secondly — and equally important — the pit must be properly drained. If a hedgehog falls into a pit and is drowned in the water, a ramp is of limited value to it.
Amid all this hilarity, I am making a serious point. It is distressing to see those poor little beasts lying dead in the pits from starvation or drowning. That applies not only to hedgehogs, but to many other small animals. It would not kill the Minister—as the hedgehogs have been killed —to accept the spirit of what has been said.

§ Mr. Maxton
I am surprised at the great concern for hedgehogs shown by the hon. Member for Dumfries (Sir H. Monro) who, in our last debate, said that he wanted to drive his car as fast as possible. He probably kills three hedgehogs every night as he drives home in his vintage Bentley. Therefore, his concern for the one or two hedgehogs which may fall through a cattle grid is a bit much.
I am concerned about subsection (7). Usually a cattle grid on a road has a bypass for cyclists, pedestrians, and so on.

§ Mr. Home Robertson
What about cattle?

§ Mr. Maxton
Yes; cattle being moved by a farmer would be taken on the bypass round the grid.
Subsection (7) uses the word "may" in relation to providing a gate. What is the point of having a bypass if there is no gate? If there is a gate, the cattle we are trying to stop crossing the grid will go round the bypass. Therefore, there must be an obligation on the roads authority to provide a gate. I hope that the Minister will respond to that point.

§ Mr. Allan Stewart
Clause 40 does not in any way change the present position for the provision of cattle grids. My hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries (Sir H. Morro) mentioned its relationship to clause 46. The purpose of clause 46 is to allow a roads authority to enter into agreement with anyone willing to contribute towards the expense incurred in connection with a cattle grid.
The debate has concentrated on hedgehog ramps. I am happy to assure the Committee that that is a matter not for legislation, but for the detailed design of cattle grids. There is nothing in the Bill to prevent the proper provision of hedgehog ramps.
377 The hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Maxton) asked about subsection (7), which enables an authority to provide and maintain on a by-pass any gate or other works necessary for the proper control of traffic and the efficient operation of the cattle-grid". This enabling clause gives the roads authority the discretion to provide whatever is appropriate in the particular circumstances.

§ Sir Hector Monro
I am afraid that that is not a good enough answer. At the moment, anyone can put in a hedgehog ramp. However, I want an assurance from my hon. Friend that he will go to the local authorities and the Scottish Development Department and say that all future categories must be designed with ramps to enable small animals to escape. That is all that I am asking him to do, and I hope that he will agree.

§ Mr. Stewart
I fear that I cannot give such a categorical assurance. This is a matter of detailed design. It is not appropriate for this legislation, however sympathetic I may be to the points that hon. Members have made.

§ Mr. Wilson
If it is not possible to put something such as this into primary legislation, perhaps the Minister will consider adopting his earlier suggestion that this should be contained in regulations.