CONTROL OVER CARRIAGE OF HAZARDOUS MATERIALS ON ROADS (Hansard, 20 June 1984)

§ Mr. Home Robertson
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
I am sorely tempted to say that this is a purely technical new clause and sit down, in the hope that the Minister will accept it. We seem to have been accepting a lot of new clauses and amendments on such a pretext up to now. I wonder whether I might get away with the same trick as the Minister has been deploying.
The purpose of the new clause is to enable roads authorities to prohibit the carriage of specified hazardous materials in any road in their area if they are satisfied that the carriage of such materials could endanger either the local population or other road users. I welcome you back to the chair, Mr. Armstrong. We have had an interesting succession of chairmen in the Committee. Local roads authorities have a legitimate interest in the types of materials which may be carried on roads within their areas. We have heard some disturbing accounts in recent years of accidents involving hazardous loads where there has been a spillage or leakage of gas or an explosive or corrosive material which can cause a serious hazard to other road users, neighbouring people and the emergency services who have to deal with the incident.
I remember an incident a year ago on the boundary of my constituency, when a vehicle caught fire. Noxious fumes were given off which caused considerable illness to some of the firemen attending the accident. Indeed, the fumes drifted over such distances that fishermen in vessels offshore also had to be taken to hospital shortly afterwards. There was a problem because no one knew what the material was or the nature of the gas that was being given off. I entered into correspondence with the Department of Transport after that incident and I confess that my fears were not allayed.
It is desirable that local roads authorities should be able to designate which materials may or may not be carried on certain roads. Obviously hazardous materials may have to be transported around the country, but roads authorities should be able to designate which roads may be used. Presumably they would designate roads which were least dangerous from the point of view of traffic and with the smallest number of people living in the neighbourhood so that if there were to be an accident as few people as possible would be affected.
A number of roads authorities and regional councils in Scotland which are controlled by the Labour party have rightly declared themselves to be nuclear-free zones. It is legitimate that such roads authorities should be able to prevent the carriage of nuclear weapons through their area. We have already had the spectacle of American army vehicles, not in Scotland yet although I suppose it could happen, carrying cruise missiles on public roads in England. I do not want to see anything like this happening in Scotland.
I believe in local democracy. If the population of a given area has elected a roads authority which does not want nuclear weapons to be carried around within that area, it should be able to enforce that view. That is one of the objectives of the new clause. I am sure the Minister will accept this modest new clause.

§ Mr. Bruce
I should like to support the spirit of the new clause in as much as there is concern at the lack of 429 regulations about the transportation of hazardous materials. Within the last two or three years a butane tanker caught fire at five o'clock in the morning in the middle of Aberdeen. I spoke to the then chief constable about it. He said that it was something of which he had no previous experience; it was the most horrific material that he had ever come across. The fire was not extinguishable. It burned for six hours, including during the rush hour. The firemen were unable to put it out. The Chief Constable said that if he had known that such a substance was to come through his city he would have sought to prevent it because such an accident could have been very serious. Whether or not the drafting of the new clause is acceptable, there is a serious point behind it, of which the Minister should take account.

§ Mr. Wilson
It is a pity that the hon. Member for East Lothian (Mr. Home Robertson) put the argument the way that he did in introducing the new clause. Like him, I am completely in favour of nuclear-free zones and do not want to see such materials transported through the country. However, that is a matter of state policy. In the final stages of the Roads (Scotland) Bill we are unlikely to have any major changes, particularly as the Secretary of State for Energy, who popped in for a while, has now left.
The Committee's attention has been directed to an important aspect. It is desirable that there should be some control, however that may be expressed in drafting terms, over lorry loads of noxious and dangerous chemicals and gases. [Interruption.] If the hon. Member for Renfrew, West and Inverclyde (Mrs. McCurley) wishes to intervene, perhaps she will do so.
Those of us who are aware of the need to make sure that the areas where the public have access are safe, to make sure that special cargoes are regulated, and that there is some local consultation, feel that the hon. Gentleman has made a good point. I regret that to some extent he took the argument away from the area to which it properly related. I hope that the Minister will address his attention to the problem in view of the factual accounts that we have been given by the hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member for Gordon (Mr. Bruce).

§ Mr. Bill Walker
I trust that when my hon. Friend considers the new clause he will bear in mind that the country areas would find it extremely difficult if some of the more combustible materials that have been touched on were not transported. I can envisage a situation where butane gas would not be available to the country areas. I can also visualise a situation where restrictions on tankers carrying petroleum — one of the most hazardous substances that is moved around and the higher the octane the more combustible it is—would present enormous problems.
The Ministry of Defence, by virtue of its task, is required to move around weapons, weapon systems and ammunition, not necessarily nuclear. It does that all the time in order to carry out its duties and responsibilities.

§ Mr. Home Robertson
I suppose that it is too much to expect that the hon. Gentleman should have read the new clause before he made a speech about it. It says: A local roads authority may prohibit the carriage of specified hazardous materials on any road in their area". Obviously no reasonable local roads authority would impose such controls in the way that he is suggesting.

§ Mr. Walker
If the hon. Gentleman had listened carefully, I was responding to comments made by others who have taken part in the debate. One could not always consider that views held by others were reasonable. It depends which way one looks at a matter. Some Labour Members accuse Conservative Members of being unreasonable. Many local authorities may take action that I would judge to be unreasonable.

§ Mr. Allan Stewart
I appreciate the concern of the hon. Members for East Lothian (Mr. Home Robertson), for Gordon (Mr. Bruce) and for Dundee, East (Mr. Wilson) on the carriage of dangerous or hazardous loads on roads in local authority areas, and the Committee will have a great deal of sympathy for the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Tayside, North (Mr. Walker).
Clause 2 of the Road Traffic Regulation Bill consolidates existing provisions. Those provisions empower local roads authorities, by traffic regulation order, to specify routes for vehicular traffic of any specified class or to prohibit such traffic from using a road.
In the light of those powers, I hope that the hon. Gentleman will agree that it would be appropriate for him to seek leave to withdraw the new clause.

§ Mr. Home Robertson
I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation, and for having made it clear that local authorities evidently have powers similar to those that I seek. The last thing I would want to do is to duplicate existing powers.
In view of the fact that the Minister has indicated that local authorities have, and will continue to have, adequate powers under legislation to control the movement of hazardous materials on specified roads, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.