§ 33. Mr. Canavanasked the Solicitor-General for Scotland how many people have been charged as a result of incidents arising from the miners' strike; and with what they have been charged.
§ 36. Mr. Home Robertsonasked the Solicitor-General for Scotland how many cases have been reported to procurators fiscal in connection with the miners' strike; and how many prosecutions have been made.
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandSeven hundred and seventy-six people have been arrested, charged and have been or may be reported to the procurators fiscal in connection with incidents arising out of the miners' strike. The majority have been charged with breach of the peace and contravention of the Police (Scotland) Act 1967. Other charges include vandalism, assault, trespass, possession of an offensive weapon, a contravention of the Explosive Substances Act 1883 and 286 a road traffic offence. To date, five have been convicted and another 338 are awaiting trial following pleas of not guilty.
§ Mr. CanavanIn view of the deplorable scenes at Orgreave earlier this week, and the possibility that the British Steel Corporation may restart convoys of coke lorries to Ravenscraig, will the hon. and learned Gentleman remind the police that peaceful picketing is not a crime? Will he, with me, condemn picket line violence from whatever source, to avoid a repetition of the bloody pitched battles provoked by hooligans in uniform using truncheons and horses' hooves to beat the miners into submission?
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandI am perfectly willing to say that peaceful picketing is not a criminal offence. I only wish that the hon. Gentleman would be prepared to tell his friends that the TUC code of conduct suggests that there should be only six people on a picket line.
§ Mr. CanavanThat is not the law. It is purely voluntary.
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandSimply because something voluntary emanates from the TUC does not mean that it should be ignored — but perhaps I have misunderstood the role of the TUC.
For the hon. Gentleman to suggest that condemnation of violence should be directed only against those who have the luckless task of trying to keep order between those who want to work and those seeking to stop them doing so is wholly wrong. If the hon. Gentleman truly had the interests of his constituents at heart, he would condemn the violence which, regrettably, we have seen not only in England but in Scotland.
§ Mr. MaloneCan my hon. and learned Friend assure the House that no special instructions will be given to procurators fiscal in respect of the prosecution of miners arrested while picketing? Can he also assure the House that they will be treated in the same way as other common criminals, because that is what they are?
§ Mr. EwingOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. These matters are sub judice and it is not right for the hon. Member for Aberdeen, South (Mr. Malone) to describe untried people as common criminals. It is even more dangerous for the Solicitor-General to answer.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I am well aware of the sub judice rule and I have been listening carefully. I apologise to the hon. Member for East Lothian (Mr. Home Robertson), because I should have called him first.
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandI shall answer the first part of the question put to me by my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, South (Mr. Malone). I have said before, and I am happy to reiterate it, that no special instructions are being given with regard to any offences arising out of incidents on picket lines involving miners.
As I implied in my answer to the hon. Member for Falkirk, West (Mr. Canavan), the charges that have been made so far in those cases that have already come before the courts are in no way for special offences. They are ordinary offences, which my hon. Friend will have seen in the sheriff court frequently in his practice. There is nothing unusual or special about them. We are concerned only to ensure that no criminal offences are being perpetrated on the picket lines in Scotland.
§ Mr. Home RobertsonThe Solicitor-General and the rest of us can condemn violence and other things until we are blue in the face, but it will not solve anything. What does the Solicitor-General think about the fact that the police and the courts are now so deeply involved in this industrial dispute on behalf of the Coal Board and the Government? Will he accept that the Government have taken industrial relations back to the grim, bleak days when weapons, arrests, the use of horses and threats of financial deprivation for miners' families were commonplace? Would it not be more sensible to get this affair resolved by negotiation rather than by litigation and prosecution?
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandOf course I agree with the hon. Gentleman. It is appalling that the police and the courts have to be involved in this matter. However, while there are people trying to get to work, and other people are trying to stop them, and there are on those occasions breaches of the criminal law, it seems to me, unfortunately, that both the police and the procurators fiscal have to be involved, and eventually the courts will have to be involved. If that could be avoided, that would be desirable. However, I am not prepared to say that, because this is an industrial dispute, if there have been breaches of the criminal law we should turn a blind eye to them.
§ Lord James Douglas-HamiltonWill my hon. and learned Friend confirm that miners in Scotland have a legal right to work if they so wish, and under the law of Scotland are free to do so?
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandI am happy to confirm that, and that is what the police are seeking to do. They are trying to ensure that, when people want to work, they have the opportunity to do so, without being threatened either by violence or sheer weight of numbers.
§ Mr. EadieDoes the hon. and learned Gentleman agree that the figures that he gave the House in reply to the questions show that the time has arrived for conciliation, not confrontation? Will he do everything that he can to endorse the initiative taken by my right hon. Friend the Member for Salford, East (Mr. Orme) in getting negotiations going — something that this Government should have done a long time ago?
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandIn this matter, my unhappy responsibilities are to ensure that where there are breaches of the criminal law they are properly brought before the courts and are dealt with fairly and impartially by those courts. It is not for me to become involved in negotiations on the strike. All I can say, and I repeat it, is that if there are people breaching the criminal law in Scotland, in pursuance of their industrial action, without regard to the fact that it is an industrial action we shall prosecute.
§ Mr. HirstDoes my hon. and learned Friend agree that the police have been subjected to a deplorable amount of violence on the picket line? Will he accept that the relatively low number of prosecutions confirms the good humour and tact of the police in handling picketing?
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandYes, Sir. The police have an extremely difficult job to perform. Recently, we have not had quite the same violent incidents that have been experienced in the south, but I should have thought that the House would appreciate the difficulties of the police in trying to keep order on these occasions. Yet again, there is a stunning silence from the Opposition Benches in the condemnation of violence.
§ Mr. DewarWill the Solicitor-General for Scotland accept that we have all repeatedly condemned violence? I do so again on this occasion. Will he accept also that it is important that we try to keep down the temperature? Will he dissociate himself from the statement that has been made by the hon. Member for Aberdeen, South (Mr. Malone) to the effect that everyone who is charged is, by definition, a common criminal? That is an assumption that the hon. Gentleman would have resented deeply if it had been made against any client whom he represented in the criminal courts.
§ The Solicitor-General for ScotlandI think that the hon. Gentleman has taken up the observation of my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, South (Mr. Malone) in the wrong way. Those who are charged with criminal offences arising out of incidents in the current industrial action do not fall into a special category. If they are to be convicted by the courts, they will be convicted because they have been in breach of the criminal law of Scotland. They do not fall into any special classification. In those circumstances, the description that my hon. Friend has given them is wholly accurate, once they are convicted.