HC Deb 19 June 1984 vol 62 cc128-9
Mr. Eastham

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on the White Paper, "Training for Jobs."

5. Mr. Freud

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what discussions he has had with local authorities on the subject of his White Paper, "Training for Jobs."

Sir Keith Joseph

The Government are committed to introduce the new funding arrangements for non-advanced further education which were announced in the White Paper, "Training for Jobs". My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment and I have discussed this matter on a number of occasions with representatives of the local authority associations.

Mr. Eastham

Is it not a fact that the Government intend to take away several hundred million pounds from colleges of education? Is it fair to expect the Manpower Services Commission to negotiate with the local authorities when Tory as well as Labour-controlled authorities completely reject the White Paper? Will the Secretary of State reconsider the whole situation and withdraw his White Paper?

Sir Keith Joseph

No. It is true that the local authority associations are still reluctant to accept the Government's decision, but the hon. Gentleman presents the facts wrongly. We are proposing not to take away hundreds of millions of pounds from non-advanced further education, but, in the first instance, to move the spending of £65 million from the decision of local authorities to the decision—preferably after consultation—of the MSC.

Mr. Freud

Bearing in mind what the Secretary of State has said, is this not yet another case of the Government treating local government with undeserved contempt?

Sir Keith Joseph

The hon. Gentleman is quite wrong in his use of the word "contempt". The Government formed a view, which has recently been reinforced by an HMI report, that not all non-advanced further education provision is as it should be. Much of it is excellent, but not all of it is. For that the employers take some responsibility. In a desire to improve its condition, the Government announced a decision by which they stand.

Mr. Haselhurst

Is not the plus point about the White Paper the fact that it is trying more exactly to measure preparation for work with available jobs? Ought we not to keep an open mind about the method by which we can best combine education and training to that purpose?

Sir Keith Joseph

Yes; my hon. Friend is right. The Government are trying to identify the latent demands for skills without falling into the trap of manpower planning.

Mr. Sheerman

Is the Secretary of State aware that his White Paper continues to provoke conflict and confrontation between the Government, trade unions, local authorities and the Manpower Services Commission? Given the right hon. Gentleman's known interest in standards, would it not be in the interests of non-advanced further education for him to reconsider and rally to the standard raised by the right hon. Member for Cambridgeshire, South-East (Mr. Pym) this weekend and move in the direction of what are described as the traditional Tory values of compromise and conciliation?

Sir Keith Joseph

There is an immense amount of common ground between local authorities, college authorities, the MSC and the trade unions. We all want more effective non-advanced further education. The question is whether the Government's proposed method, in alliance with local authorities, will make improvements relatively quickly. We think that it can and will.