§ Q1. Mr. Gouldasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 14 June.
§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.
§ Mr. GouldWill the Prime Minister today place in the House of Commons Library a glossary of 1066 "Thatcherspeech" which would define terms such as "intervene", as in "I do not intervene in industrial disputes", or "list", as in "There is no list of authorities which have been scheduled for rate-capping", or "towards", as in "The Belgrano was sailing towards the exclusion zone"?
Would it not save a great deal of trouble in future, not least for her Ministers, if the Prime Minister, like Humpty Dumpty in "Through the Looking-Glass" made it clear that henceforth words are to bear the meaning that she decides to give them?
§ The Prime MinisterI am very flattered that the hon. Gentleman can only find such a trivial question to ask. It shows that he has no criticism to make of the Government's present policies. I thank him for the compliment.
§ Mr. ThurnhamWhat message would my right hon. Friend give to those town hall employees who are being instructed by NALGO to flout the intentions of the House and in particular to obstruct the abolition of the metropolitan councils?
§ The Prime MinisterI hope that they will carry on with the duties for which they are employed and be loyal to their employers in doing so.
§ Mr. HattersleyFollowing the breakdown of the pit peace talks, does the Prime Minister propose to continue her pretence that she is simply sitting on the sidelines watching the damage continue, or will she now do all that she possibly can to encourage the honourably negotiated settlement which would clearly be in the national interest?
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Mr. Speaker. I shall not have a meeting at No. 10 and call both sides together in any way. The strike was always unnecessary. It has gone on too long and I hope that the men on strike will think carefully about their positions and return to work. There must be closures of uneconomic capacity, just as much as there must be development of new and low-cost capacity.
The longer the strike goes on, the greater the danger to the pits left unworked. More pits could be closed through being damaged beyond repair than are envisaged for closure by the board. The package on offer to the miners is extremely generous. The coal industry has a prosperous future ahead of it and miners should get back to work to take advantage of those excellent prospects.
§ Mr. HattersleyThe right hon. Lady flatters herself. Nobody is suggesting for a moment that pit peace talks should be held under her chairmanship or that they could possibly succeed under the chairmanship of someone so pathologically opposed to trade unions. What we are asking, and what I ask her to say today, is that she will not prevent the Coal Board from entering into negotiations with the flexibility that is essential if there is to be lasting peace.
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman cannot possibly have read the statement put out by the chairman of the NCB this morning. I do not blame him for that. We cannot all be up to date. Mr. MacGregor said:
The board are willing to sit down as a matter of urgency with all the unions to discuss a revision of 'Plan for Coal'''.He went on to say:I have already made public statements that if we tackle our current problems sensibly the industry has a good future. We will give high wages and give security.
§ Q2. Mr. Andrew MacKayasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 14 June.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. MacKayWill my right hon. Friend take this opportunity to commend the way in which our excellent police force has impartially upheld the rule of law on the picket lines during the coal dispute? Will she also strongly condemn those in the Labour party and elsewhere who have used the police as a political football to further their own extreme political ends?
§ The Prime MinisterYes, I gladly respond to both parts of my hon. Friend's question. The police have earned the gratitude and admiration of the whole country, including the many miners—some 50,000—who have regularly gone into work, the many members of the steel industry who are trying to protect their jobs, and many in the docks who are trying to ensure that the coal reaches the steel and other industries.
Since the present Government came to power, the number of police has been increased in England and Wales by over 14,000. The pay, equipment and morale of the police have improved enormously during that time.
§ Mr. FreudAs the Prime Minister is so up to date, she will have read the leader in today's Financial Times. Did she notice that that excellent paper advised its readers to vote for the only political party that intended to develop Europe, and that that party was not the right hon. Lady's party?
§ The Prime MinisterYes, but the hon. Gentleman will not be surprised to hear that I do not always agree with the Financial Times, any more than the hon. Gentleman does when it says the opposite.
§ Mr. StokesHas my right hon. Friend read of the declaration in Madrid by Spain and Argentina about their claims to the Falklands and Gibraltar? In replying to the Spanish Government, without perhaps mentioning Trafalgar, will my right hon. Friend tell them that we are not frightened by that sort of thing and that if Spain wants our support in its attempt to enter the EEC, that country had better not do it again?
§ The Prime MinisterNaturally we take exception to the terms of the joint communiqué in so far as it distorts the true position of Gibraltar and the Falklands. We take particular exception to it because today is the second anniversary of the surrender of Argentina in the Falklands, when white flags were flying over Port Stanley. All my hon. and right hon. Friends would say clearly that we stand as absolutely by our commitment to respect the wishes of the people of Gibraltar as we do by our commitment that the wishes of the people of the Falklands are paramount.
§ Mr. HaynesHow can the Prime Minister expect the people of this nation—particularly the electorate—to believe that the Government are not planning to increase VAT on food, bearing in mind that the Prime Minister at that Dispatch Box—[Interruption.] Why will you not listen?
§ Mr. SpeakerI am listening.
§ Mr. HaynesI am sorry, Mr. Speaker.
The Prime Minister promised at the Dispatch Box that she would not intervene in the coal dispute, but she did. 1068 Before the election in 1979 she promised that her Government, if elected, would reduce unemployment. They have more than doubled it. At the same time, she promised that prescription charges would not be increased. They have been increased from 20p to £1.60. I have listed three fibs. Why will the Prime Minister not tell the people exactly what her Government are planning for them?
§ The Prime MinisterI have just been asked by the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Sparkbrook (Mr. Hattersley) to intervene in the coal dispute. I have just refused, and will persistently continue to refuse, to do so. On 18 April 1979 I said that I doubted very much whether any responsible Government could say that over a period of five years—regardless of what happened to the value of money — they would not increase prescription charges.
If the hon. Gentleman wishes to refer to the other points mentioned in the Daily Mirror I shall answer them, but he should not confine his questions to matters that arise from reading the newspapers.
§ Q3. Mr. Hirstasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 14 June.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. HirstWill my right hon. Friend take time today to consider the level of the Leader of the Opposition's salary? Does she believe that he deserves an increase for the time that he spends inventing scare stories about Government policy? Does she agree that he would earn his salary better if he spent his time trying to clarify the contradictory policies of the Labour party on the European Community, defence and practically everything else?
§ The Prime MinisterI shall not do anything about the Leader of the Opposition's salary, but I entirely agree with my hon. Friend that we are still waiting to learn whether the Labour party wants to stay in or get out of Europe and whether it wants to increase or decrease expenditure on defence.
§ Mr. Willie W. HamiltonIn view of recent statements by the Prime Minister inside and outside the House, ranging from the sinking of the General Belgrano to rate-capping in Portsmouth, why should anyone believe one word that she says about anything?
§ The Prime MinisterWith regard to the sinking of the General Belgrano, I believe that this side of the House believed that its duty lay with our forces.
§ Mr. SoamesWill my right hon. Friend take a moment today to reflect on the success of Britain's overseas aid programme, the fact that it is compassionate and extensive and results in a significant return by way of goods purchased from British companies?
§ The Prime MinisterYes. The majority of our aid is tied to orders from Britain, but, with regard to aid that is not tied, we try to concentrate on the poorest countries. We fulfil our obligations under the International Development Association and are prepared to make a supplemental addition to the latest IDA round.
§ Q4. Mr. Blairasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 14 June.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. BlairHow can the Prime Minister credibly maintain that she has not intervened in the coal dispute when British Rail is instructed to settle its wage claim to gain a tactical advantage over the miners and when she talks in terms of no surrender to the miners, as though the coal dispute was a military engagement in the south Atlantic? Does she not realise that the criticism of her is not that she has intervened, but that the nature of her intervention has prolonged rather than settled the dispute?
§ The Prime MinisterThe people who are responsible for the dispute are those who called out the miners in the first place. Fortunately, one quarter of the miners did not listen to that call and have continued to go to work.
§ Mr. CormackIs it not a pity that the miners of Staffordshire, who believe in working, cannot look to the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Sparkbrook (Mr. Hattersley) for moral support? Does not his political career make that of the Vicar of Bray seem a model of consistency?
§ The Prime MinisterI entirely agree with the last part of my hon. Friend's question. The fact remains that the Labour party will always encourage anyone who is on strike. In the miners' dispute, miners are divided and many continue to go to work. I hope that the rest will soon return to work in view of the excellent pay that has been offered to them. I understand from what Mr. MacGregor said this morning that, already, more miners have applied for voluntary redundancy terms than are needed to meet the target for this year's reduction in manpower. I also hope that the miners will go back to work in view of the industry's excellent future, as the Government have invested more in the coal mines than any other Government because we believe in the future of the coal industry.
§ Q6. Mr. Terry Davisasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 14 June.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. DavisWill the Prime Minister find time to publish, for the benefit of everyone, all of the letters that have recently been written by her staff to the National Coal Board.
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir—but I do not think that they would amount to very many, if any.
§ Mr. YeoDoes my right hon. Friend agree that there is overwhelming support throughout the country and in the House for the proper but detached concern that she has shown for public sector wage settlements through correspondence from her office? Does she further agree that such concern has been conspicuous by its absence with regard to the Leader of the Opposition's office and that the leader of the Social Democratic party did not even deign to turn up to the House for the debate on the coal industry, which he had so earnestly requested?
§ The Prime MinisterI have noted my hon. Friend's comments. The fact is that the Opposition would have preferred the railwaymen to come out on strike rather than stay at their post and go on earning money, honourably keeping their families. The letter from my office, as hon. and right hon. Gentlemen wall know, said that I agreed with the proposal that was put to me. I did not intervene or interfere in any way.
§ Q7. Mr. Winnickasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 14 June.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. WinnickWhy does the right hon. Lady not recognise that the miners will not be starved into defeat, and why, therefore, does she not tell Mr. MacGregor to drop his hostile and negative attitude and start negotiating properly with the NUM?
§ The Prime MinisterOne in every four of the miners are continuing to work to keep their families, and that is what the hon. Gentleman cannot get over. It is hardly hostile to the mining industry to invest more in its future than any other previous Government. It is hardly hostile to the mining industry to give subsidies to those who wish to change over from oil to coal to increase possible orders for the mining industry. It is hardly hostile to the mining industry that Mr. MacGregor went and won a large contract from the United States that will keep 1,000 people in Durham going for a long time. The fact is that there is a chairman of the National Coal Board who believes in the future prospects of the mining industry. I hope that the miners will reconsider their position. Many of them are going to work. Strikes and staying away from the pits will lose more pits and more jobs than anything else.