HC Deb 13 June 1984 vol 61 cc905-6
9. Mr. Greenway

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he has issued any recent guidance to local authorities concerning the provision of gipsy sites; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Macfarlane

Comprehensive guidance on provision of sites is contained in the Department's circular 28 of 1977; it has been supplemented from time to time. The most recent guidance was given in a booklet issued in June 1982 on the management of local authority sites.

Mr. Greenway

Is my hon. Friend aware of efforts by the Labour party, aided and abetted it would appear by some parts of the Department of the Environment, to force the establishment of gipsy sites at a cost of £1 million for 15 families—many of whom are didicois and not gipsies — at Kensington road or Ruislip road in my constituency, which sites are not suitable and where the local people bitterly resent the suggestion? Will my hon. Friend assist me and Ealing council in our efforts to have such a site, if we must have it, at Park Royal, where no residents would be affected?

Mr. Macfarlane

I understand the anxiety and upset which this subject can arouse. Indeed, I expect many hon. Members have similar anxieties on occasion about gipsy sites in their constituencies and the problems that surround them. While I understand the background of the case, obviously the selection of a site is very much for the local authority. My hon. Friend is sufficiently experienced to know that there are constitutional responsibilities for the local authority and ultimately, perhaps, for my right hon. Friend.

Mr. Rowe

Is my hon. Friend aware that my constituency suffers from constant visitations by gipsies, many of whom are unable to find sites within the London boroughs because the boroughs are shamefully neglecting their responsibility to provide sites?

Mr. Macfarlane

My hon. Friend and many other colleagues who represent constituencies in Kent, and mid-Kent in particular, have had a close dialogue with my officials to try to resolve some of these problems.

Mr. Cartwright

Will the Minister also consider the position of council tenants at Thamesmead who live in a borough that has provided 54 caravan sites for travellers and yet have to suffer regular invasions from travellers simply because there are not sufficient sites in other parts of Greater London?

Mr. Macfarlane

The question of site provision certainly involves my Department. Obviously any causes of misery, and the problem of travellers who arrive on pitches that are not recognised, are primarily matters for the local authority and the local police.

Sir Anthony Grant

Is my hon. Friend aware that the gipsy problem is getting out of hand? An answer I received from his Department only the other day demonstrated that nearly twice as many people were taking advantage of the legislation as had been envisaged when it was passed. The definition of a gipsy is completely inadequate. The people who are causing the trouble in Cambridgeshire, and no doubt in other constituencies, are not true Romanies. They are layabouts or scrap dealers. Will my hon. Friend please receive a deputation of hon. Members who have this problem in their constituency to see what can be done?

Mr. Macfarlane

My earlier judgment of this as a matter that arouses much hostility and anger in hon. Members was probably more accurate than I realised. Certainly I shall consider any overtures that my hon. Friend wants to make. Officials in my Department have been working closely with officials from Cambridgeshire county council and we shall continue with that.