§ 1. Mr. Boyesasked the Secretary of State for Employment when he next expects to meet European Economic Community Employment Ministers to discuss the Vredeling report.
§ The Secretary of State for Employment (Mr. Tom King)It is probable that the draft Vredeling directive will be discussed at the next Labour and Social Affairs Council, currently planned for 13 December 1984.
§ Mr. BoyesIs the Secretary of State aware that although this is a modest proposal for workers' rights it has aroused the most reactionary instincts in Conservative Members and that consequently the United Kingdom is alone, isolated and to some extent despised by its European colleagues? Through the power of the veto the United Kingdom can stop Governments who wish to implement the Vredeling directive from doing so.
§ Mr. KingWe have certainly made clear our reservation in principle about the directive, but the hon. Gentleman may be aware that the matter is now being discussed in more detail by a working group. It is significant that many other member states also now have severe reservations. We are on the side of genuine involvement but believe that the directive, through its bureaucratic regulations, could be harmful to that cause.
§ Mrs. Kellett-BowmanWill my right hon. Friend accept that many people believe that it is far preferable to have work people, rather than simply trade union members, involved in negotiations? Will he further accept that the flexibility that we have sought to achieve in the directive will eventually prove to be popular with all other member states?
§ Mr. KingI am grateful to my hon. Friend for putting her finger on one of the pertinent points. Such arguments arise when one tries to draft specific directives.
I put out the original proposals to consultation and was impressed by the strength of the representations, not from those thought to be hostile to involvement, but from some of the household names renowned for their efforts to involve their own work people. They were most concerned about the directive and its possible impact.
§ Mrs. ClwydIs the Minister aware that information consultation would benefit both sides of industry? Is he also aware that the more radical proposals of the Vredeling directive were defeated in the European Parliament by the activities of the Conservative Members, who were paid lobbyists for multinational companies?
§ Mr. KingFor those who have worked in industry—perhaps that includes the hon. Lady — and know the problems of achieving the involvement of everyone working in an organisation or a company, the most important decision is how to determine the most effective way to do that. Is it likely to be achieved by the genuine commitment of those concerned, encouraged in every possible way in the voluntary approach, or is it likely to be done by a directive from the Community?
§ Mr. HoltDoes my right hon. Friend agree that the best form of involvement is share participation and ownership of the company by the employees, and that Government schemes to encourage that are the best way forward?
§ Mr. KingI have recently looked at the matter and I very much agree with my hon. Friend. He may not be aware, as I was not, of how much progress has been made. When we came to office in 1979 there were fewer than 30 schemes involving shares and profit sharing in companies. The latest figures show that there are now nearly 700 such schemes covering more than 1½ million people, and 250,000 people a year are becoming owners of shares in their companies.