HC Deb 31 July 1984 vol 65 cc205-7
3. Mr. Andrew MacKay

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will estimate the effects on the level of unemployment of recent national strikes.

Mr. Tom King

Whilst it is impossible to make an accurate estimate, strikes definitely put employment at risk. In the short term, output is lost and orders go to competitors—in the case of national strikes, particularly to overseas competitors. Export orders are lost, and some of the orders lost in previous strikes have never been recovered.

Mr. MacKay

Does my right hon. Friend not think it particularly disgraceful for the National Union of Mineworkers deliberately to attempt to destroy the jobs of thousands of steel workers, at both Llanwern and Ravenscraig, as far as we can tell only for its own political aims?

Mr. King

The tragedy of the present dispute is not only that it threatens the jobs of workers in other industries, some of whose jobs are much more precarious than those of mineworkers who have considerable assurance about future employment. From the latest report on the condition of some pits it seems that the mineworkers' activities will threaten their own jobs.

Mr. Penhaligon

Is the Minister aware that the original question No. 3 was very similar to the present one but was based on interest rates and not strikes? Why does the Minister have such strong opinions on strikes, but nothing to say on the long-term effect of high interest rates on employment?

Mr. King

I am not sure how the hon. Member got that question in and I am not aware of an original question No. 3.

I certainly accept that interest rates are important. The Government have made it clear that reducing inflation and the reduction of interest rates below those of the United States are important if Great Britain is to give the best possible account of itself. The reduction in interest rates has been a significant achievement by the Government, bearing in mind that previously our interest rates were 4 per cent. above those of the United States.

Mr. Rowe

Will my right hon. Friend take this opportunity to reaffirm the Government's belief that trade unions are an indispensable part of our free society and, moreover, that in view of what some trade union leaders apparently intend to urge upon the TUC, that he is equally concerned to restore the balance between those millions who are not in trade unions and those who are?

Mr. King

I certainly feel that one of the most serious casualties of the present dispute is the good name of responsible trade unionism. Certain of the scenes of recent months have nothing to do with the tradition of trade unionism in this country as people understand it. I know that a number of members of the TUC are acutely concerned about the image that is arising from the dispute. I hope that the TUC will not be backward in coming forward to re-establish its views on the correct way in which industrial disputes should be conducted.

Mr. Terry Davis

What about the national strike that took place yesterday at British Telecom depots? It was a direct result of the announcement of BT's board that several depots are to be closed, with the loss of hundreds of jobs, and without consultation with the trade unions. Who is responsible for those job losses, and for that strike?

Mr. King

I have to declare an interest, because one of the depots to face closure is in Bridgwater in my constituency.

As I understand it, there is no proposal to make any closure before the end of 1985, and BT has made clear its desire to enter into discussions and consultations to see whether alternative jobs can be found for employees. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will support me when I say that in all such disputes it is far better to talk and discuss than to strike first and talk after.

Mr. Hirst

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the jobs of my constituents are being threatened by the continuing miners' dispute? I have in mind the jobs of constituents working in companies which supply the National Coal Board. Does he agree that the threat to their jobs arises directly from Arthur Scargill's wilful refusal to hold a ballot of his members—a ballot which the NUM rule book specifies?

Mr. King

I certainly recognise, and am aware, that the present dispute in the coal industry threatens, and has affected, the employment of a considerable number of miners' fellow citizens. It is tragic that the leadership of the NUM has led some of its members into the dispute without the wholehearted support of the whole union. That has undoubtedly contributed substantially to the bitterness and tragedy in so many mining areas.

Mr. Sheerman

Will the Secretary of State put the record straight for his Back Benchers? It is his Government, not working people and not trade unions, who have destroyed millions of jobs. His Government's policies have driven working people and their communities to the actions that they are taking. The miners are giving to other working people an example and a lead in the defence of jobs.

Mr. King

The hon. Gentleman talks of driving miners to this action, but there are many other workers who would not mind being driven by the compulsion of some of the highest wage rates in the country, the best redundancy offer and an undertaking of no compulsory redundancy.

The idea that compulsion is trampling over the miners is the biggest distortion of the truth that it is possible to imagine.

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