HC Deb 24 July 1984 vol 64 cc905-9

Lords amendment: No. 3, insert the following new clause— .—(1) Where a trade union proposes to hold an election and is satisfied that there are no reasonable grounds for believing that the requirements of section 2 of this Act would not be satisfied in relation to that election if subsection (6A) of that section were to apply as modified by this section, it may proceed as if for paragraphs (a) and (b) of subsection (6A) there were substituted— (a) have made available to him—

  1. (i) immediately before, immediately after, or during, his working hours; and
  2. (ii) at his place of work or at a place which is more convenient for him;
or be supplied with, a voting paper which either lists the candidates at the election or is accompanied by a separate list of those candidates; and (b) be given—
  1. (i) a convenient opportunity to vote by post (but no other opportunity to vote);
  2. 906
  3. (ii) an opportunity to vote immediately before, immediately after, or during, his working hours and at his place of work or at a place which is more convenient for him (but no other opportunity); or
  4. (iii) as alternatives, both of those opportunities (but no other opportunity)."

Read a Second time.

Amendment (a) proposed to the Lords amendment, in line 2, leave out from 'union' to end of line 25 and add 'wishes to vary the method of voting specified in subsection (6A) of section 2 of this Act the trade union shall submit to the Certification Officer a claim for exemption from the requirements of that subsection and shall show to the satisfacton of the Certification Officer that the alternative method is at least as fair, democratic and efficient as that specified in that subsection; and the Certification Officer shall, if he is so satisfied, allow the election to be held in the manner proposed by the trade union. (2) The Secretary of State shall, within three months of the commencement of this Act, make by a statutory instrument subject to approval by resolution of both Houses of Parliament, regulations specifying the procedure for claiming exemption under this section from the requirements of subsection (6A) of section 2 of this Act.' .—[Mr. Wrigglesworth.]

Question put, That the amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 48, Noes 459.

Division No. 426] [9.40 pm
AYES
Alton, David Howell, Rt Hon D. (G'ldford)
Amery, Rt Hon Julian Hughes, Simon (Southwark)
Ashdown, Paddy Johnston, Russell
Bendall, Vivian Kennedy, Charles
Best, Keith Kirkwood, Archy
Bevan, David Gilroy Leigh, Edward (Gainsbor'gh)
Body, Richard Maclennan, Robert
Bruinvels, Peter Murphy, Christopher
Budgen, Nick Owen, Rt Hon Dr David
Butterfill, John Penhaligon, David
Carlisle, John (N Luton) Prentice, Rt Hon Reg
Cranborne, Viscount Rhodes James, Robert
Dicks, Terry Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight)
Dover, Den Rossi, Sir Hugh
Fallon, Michael Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge)
Forsyth, Michael (Stirling) Sims, Roger
Fry, Peter Stanbrook, Ivor
Gardiner, George (Reigate) Steel, Rt Hon David
Greenway, Harry Wainwright, R.
Gregory, Conal Wallace, James
Griffiths, E. (B'y St Edm'ds) Wiggin, Jerry
Ground, Patrick Wrigglesworth, Ian
Grylls, Michael
Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) Tellers for the Ayes:
Hickmet, Richard Mr. John Cartwright and Mr. A. J. Beith.
Howarth, Gerald (Cannock)
NOES
Abse, Leo Banks, Tony (Newham NW)
Adley, Robert Barron, Kevin
Aitken, Jonathan Batiste, Spencer
Alexander, Richard Beckett, Mrs Margaret
Alison, Rt Hon Michael Bell, Stuart
Amess, David Benn, Tony
Ancram, Michael Bennett, A. (Dent'n & Red'sh)
Anderson, Donald Benyon, William
Arnold, Tom Bermingham, Gerald
Ashby, David Berry, Sir Anthony
Ashley, Rt Hon Jack Bidwell, Sydney
Ashton, Joe Biffen, Rt Hon John
Aspinwall, Jack Biggs-Davison, Sir John
Atkins, Rt Hon Sir H. Blair, Anthony
Atkins, Robert (South Ribble) Boothroyd, Miss Betty
Atkinson, David (B'm'th E) Boscawen, Hon Robert
Atkinson, N. (Tottenham) Bottomley, Peter
Bagier, Gordon A. T. Bottomley, Mrs Virginia
Baker, Nicholas (N Dorset) Bowden, A. (Brighton K'to'n)
Baldry, Anthony Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich)
Banks, Robert (Harrogate) Boyes, Roland
Boyson, Dr Rhodes Ellis, Raymond
Braine, Sir Bernard Emery, Sir Peter
Brandon-Bravo, Martin Evans, John (St, Helens N)
Bray, Dr Jeremy Evennett, David
Bright, Graham Ewing, Harry
Brinton, Tim Eyre, Sir Reginald
Brown, Hugh D. (Provan) Farr, Sir John
Brown, M. (Brigg & Cl'thpes) Fatchett, Derek
Brown, R. (N'c'tle-u-Tyne N) Faulds, Andrew
Brown, Ron (E'burgh, Leith) Favell, Anthony
Browne, John Fenner, Mrs Peggy
Bryan, Sir Paul Field, Frank (Birkenhead)
Buchan, Norman Fields, T. (L'pool Broad Gn)
Buchanan-Smith, Rt Hon A. Finsberg, Sir Geoffrey
Bulmer, Esmond Fisher, Mark
Burt, Alistair Flannery, Martin
Butcher, John Fletcher, Alexander
Butler, Hon Adam Fookes, Miss Janet
Caborn, Richard Foot, Rt Hon Michael
Callaghan, Rt Hon J. Forman, Nigel
Callaghan, Jim (Heyw'd & M) Forth, Eric
Campbell-Savours, Dale Foster, Derek
Canavan, Dennis Foulkes, George
Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) Fowler, Rt Hon Norman
Carlisle, Rt Hon M. (W'ton S) Fox, Marcus
Carter-Jones, Lewis Franks, Cecil
Carttiss, Michael Fraser, J. (Norwood)
Cash, William Fraser, Peter (Angus East)
Chalker, Mrs Lynda Freeman, Roger
Chapman, Sydney Freeson, Rt Hon Reginald
Chope, Christopher Gale, Roger
Clark, Hon A. (Plym'th S'n) Gardner, Sir Edward (Fylde)
Clark, Dr David (S Shields) Garel-Jones, Tristan
Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) Garrett, W. E.
Clark, Sir W. (Croydon S) George, Bruce
Clarke, Rt Hon K. (Rushcliffe) Glyn, Dr Alan
Clarke, Thomas Godman, Dr Norman
Clay, Robert Golding, John
Clegg, Sir Walter Goodhart, Sir Philip
Cockeram, Eric Good lad, Alastair
Cocks, Rt Hon M. (Bristol S.) Gorst, John
Cohen, Harry Gould, Bryan
Coleman, Donald Gourlay, Harry
Concannon, Rt Hon J. D. Gow, Ian
Conlan, Bernard Gower, Sir Raymond
Conway, Derek Grant, Sir Anthony
Cook, Robin F. (Livingston) Griffiths, Peter (Portsm'th N)
Coombs, Simon Grist, Ian
Cope, John Gummer, John Selwyn
Corbett, Robin Hamilton, Hon A. (Epsom)
Corbyn, Jeremy Hamilton, James (M'well N)
Cormack, Patrick Hampson, Dr Keith
Corrie, John Hanley, Jeremy
Cowans, Harry Hannam, John
Cox, Thomas (Tooting) Hardy, Peter
Craigen, J. M. Hargreaves, Kenneth
Critchley, Julian Harris, David
Crouch, David Harrison, Rt Hon Walter
Crowther, Stan Hart, Rt Hon Dame Judith
Cunliffe, Lawrence Harvey, Robert
Currie, Mrs Edwina Haselhurst, Alan
Dalyell, Tam Havers, Rt Hon Sir Michael
Davies, Ronald (Caerphilly) Hawkins, C. (High Peak)
Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'ge H'l) Hawksley, Warren
Deakins, Eric Hayes, J.
Dewar, Donald Hayhoe, Barney
Dickens, Geoffrey Healey, Rt Hon Denis
Dixon, Donald Heathcoat-Amory, David
Dobson, Frank Heddle, John
Dormand, Jack Heffer, Eric S.
Douglas, Dick Henderson, Barry
Dubs, Alfred Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael
du Cann, Rt Hon Edward Hicks, Robert
Duffy, A. E. P. Higgins, Rt Hon Terence L.
Dunwoody, Hon Mrs G. Hill, James
Durant, Tony Hind, Kenneth
Dykes, Hugh Hirst, Michael
Eadie, Alex Hogg, N. (C'nauld & Kilsyth)
Eastham, Ken Holland, Sir Philip (Gedling)
Eggar, Tim Holland, Stuart (Vauxhall)
Holt, Richard Marland, Paul
Hordern, Peter Marlow, Antony
Howard, Michael Marshall, David (Shettleston)
Howarth, Alan (Stratf'd-on-A) Marshall, Michael (Arundel)
Howell, Rt Hon D. (S'heath) Mates, Michael
Howell, Ralph (N Norfolk) Maude, Hon Francis
Hoyle, Douglas Mawhinney, Dr Brian
Hubbard-Miles, Peter Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin
Hughes, Dr. Mark (Durham) Maynard, Miss Joan
Hughes, Roy (Newport East) Meacher, Michael
Hughes, Sean (Knowsley S) Merchant, Piers
Hunt, David (Wirral) Meyer, Sir Anthony
Hunt, John (Ravensbourne) Michie, William
Hunter, Andrew Mikardo, Ian
Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas Millan, Rt Hon Bruce
Irving, Charles Miller, Hal (B'grove)
Janner, Hon Greville Miller, Dr M. S. (E Kilbride)
Jenkin, Rt Hon Patrick Mills, Iain (Meriden)
Jessel, Toby Mills, Sir Peter (West Devon)
John, Brynmor Miscampbell, Norman
Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey Mitchell, Austin (G't Grimsby)
Jones, Barry (Alyn & Deeside) Mitchell, David (NW Hants)
Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) Moate, Roger
Jones, Robert (W Herts) Monro, Sir Hector
Jopling, Rt Hon Michael Moore, John
Joseph, Rt Hon Sir Keith Morris, Rt Hon A. (W'shawe)
Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon)
Kershaw, Sir Anthony Mudd, David
Key, Robert Neale, Gerrard
King, Roger (B'ham N'field) Needham, Richard
King, Rt Hon Tom Nellist, David
Knight, Gregory (Derby N) Nelson, Anthony
Knowles, Michael Neubert, Michael
Knox, David Newton, Tony
Lambie, David Nicholls, Patrick
Lamont, Norman Norris, Steven
Latham, Michael Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon
Lawler, Geoffrey O'Brien, William
Lawrence, Ivan Onslow, Cranley
Lawson, Rt Hon Nigel Oppenheim, Philip
Leadbitter, Ted Oppenheim, Rt Hon Mrs S.
Lee, John (Pendle) Orme, Rt Hon Stanley
Leighton, Ronald Osborn, Sir John
Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark Ottaway, Richard
Lester, Jim Page, Sir John (Harrow W)
Lewis, Sir Kenneth (Stamf'd) Page, Richard (Herts SW)
Lewis, Terence (Worsley) Park, George
Lightbown, David Parkinson, Rt Hon Cecil
Lilley, Peter Parris, Matthew
Litherland, Robert Parry, Robert
Lloyd, Ian (Havant) Patchett, Terry
Lloyd, Peter, (Fareham) Patten, Christopher (Bath)
Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) Patten, John (Oxford)
Lofthouse, Geoffrey Pattie, Geoffrey
Lord, Michael Pavitt, Laurie
Loyden, Edward Pawsey, James
Luce, Richard Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth
Lyell, Nicholas Pendry, Tom
McCartney, Hugh Percival, Rt Hon Sir Ian
McCrindle, Robert Pike, Peter
McCurley, Mrs Anna Pollock, Alexander
McDonald, Dr Oonagh Porter, Barry
MacGregor, John Powell, Raymond (Ogmore)
McKay, Allen (Penistone) Powell, William (Corby)
MacKay, John (Argyll & Bute) Powley, John
McKelvey, William Prescott, John
Mackenzie, Rt Hon Gregor Price, Sir David
Maclean, David John Proctor, K. Harvey
McNair-Wilson, P. (New F'st) Pym, Rt Hon Francis
McNamara, Kevin Raffan, Keith
McQuarrie, Albert Raison, Rt Hon Timothy
McTaggart, Robert Rathbone, Tim
McWilliam, John Redmond, M.
Madden, Max Rees, Rt Hon M. (Leeds S)
Madel, David Rees, Rt Hon Peter (Dover)
Major, John Renton, Tim
Malins, Humfrey Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon
Malone, Gerald Richardson, Ms Jo
Maples, John Ridley, Rt Hon Nicholas
Marek, Dr John Ridsdale, Sir Julian
Rippon, Rt Hon Geoffrey Thomas, Dafydd (Merioneth)
Roberts, Ernest (Hackney N) Thomas, Rt Hon Peter
Roberts, Wyn (Conwy) Thompson, Donald (Calder V)
Robinson, G. (Coventry NW) Thompson, J. (Wansbeck)
Roe, Mrs Marion Thompson, Patrick (N'ich N)
Rogers, Allan Thorne, Neil (Ilford S)
Rooker, J. W. Thorne, Stan (Preston)
Rost, Peter Thornton, Malcolm
Rowe, Andrew Thurnham, Peter
Rumbold, Mrs Angela Tinn, James
Ryder, Richard Torney, Tom
Ryman, John Townsend, Cyril D. (B'heath)
Sackville, Hon Thomas Tracey, Richard
Sainsbury, Hon Timothy Trippier, David
St. John-Stevas, Rt Hon N. Trotter, Neville
Sayeed, Jonathan Twinn, Dr Ian
Shaw, Giles (Pudsey) van Straubenzee, Sir W.
Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb') Vaughan, Sir Gerard
Sheerman, Barry Viggers, Peter
Shelton, William (Streatham) Waddington, David
Shersby, Michael Waldegrave, Hon William
Shore, Rt Hon Peter Walden, George
Short, Ms Clare (Ladywood) Waller, Gary
Silvester, Fred Walters, Dennis
Skeet, T. H. H. Ward, John
Skinner, Dennis Warden, Gareth (Gower)
Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick) Wardle, C. (Bexhill)
Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) Wareing, Robert
Soames, Hon Nicholas Warren, Kenneth
Soley, Clive Watson, John
Spearing, Nigel Watts, John
Speed, Keith Weetch, Ken
Speller, Tony Wells, Bowen (Hertford)
Spencer, Derek Welsh, Michael
Spicer, Jim (W Dorset) Wheeler, John
Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) Whitfield, John
Squire, Robin Whitney, Raymond
Steen, Anthony Winnick, David
Stern, Michael Wolfson, Mark
Stevens, Martin (Fulham) Wood, Timothy
Stewart, Allan (Eastwood) Woodall, Alec
Stewart, Andrew (Sherwood) Woodcock, Michael
Stewart, Ian (N Hertf'dshire) Yeo, Tim
Stokes, John Young, David (Bolton SE)
Stradling Thomas, J. Young, Sir George (Acton)
Straw, Jack Younger, Rt Hon George
Sumberg, David
Tapsell, Peter Tellers for the Noes:
Taylor, John (Solihull) Mr. Ian Lang and Mr. Douglas Hogg.
Temple-Morris, Peter
Thatcher, Rt Hon Mrs M.

Question accordingly negatived.

Lords amendment No. 3 agreed to.

Forward to