Citizens' Band Radio (Emergency Services) (Hansard, 19 July 1984)

§ Mr. Frank Haynes (Ashfield)

The Government brought in legislation in favour of the licensing of citizens band radio. I welcomed that legislation. I welcomed the decisions that were made. However, one result of that legislation is that far too many people are now breaking the rules—or, in fact, breaking the law. Many of them have amplifiers which are illegal. They are far too powerful. The code name for them is "burners". When people use such appliances, problems are created for the emergency services. For example, if a fire appliance is sent to an incident, more often than not in the county of Nottinghamshire one finds that the appliance, once it is on its way, has great difficulty in keeping in close contact by radio with the central control because CB enthusiasts block out contact with central control. It is easy to understand the seriousness of that. A life that could be saved might be lost because an appliance cannot receive directions. Moreover, an ambulance might be required, but the firemen cannot contact control to ask for one because of interference. The result is that a fireman must find a telephone.

The Nottinghamshire fire brigade has tried hard to overcome the problem. It has spent a fair amount of public money on filters. They have not worked. The amplifiers that some people use are far too powerful and well above what is allowed for by the regulations. Some aerials are massive and also beyond the regulations. In the main, CB enthusiasts are sensible. It is only a few who cause problems.

Communications experts have identified several reasons why approved and licensed radio equipment becomes illegal. They are, CB radio equipment being serviced or retuned by unqualified people in the mistaken belief that the transmission power will be increased, powerful booster amplifiers being used to override other transmissions and to increase the distance of cover, and illegal radio aerials being installed on rooftops or high masts.

I should like the Minister to give some idea how he will deal with this serious problem. I am not speaking just for my constituency but the whole of Nottinghamshire, as emergency services throughout the county have contacted me. If the problem is nationwide—it might be—no doubt the Minister will know about it.

I recently tabled a question to the Minister asking him how many prosecutions there have been for breaching the regulations. He said that, in the first half of this year, 688 people had been prosecuted under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 for the unlicensed use of CB radio equipment. It should be borne in mind that some people have licences and equipment that they should not have. The prosecutions to which the Minister referred relate only to unlicensed use. I appreciate that the Department has a difficult job, but it is responsible for sorting the problem out.

I know that the Minister could stand at the Dispatch Box tonight and use all sorts of technical phrases associated with the problem. I do not want him to do that. I do not want to go into it myself, as long lists are involved. The 613 important point is that the nation, especially in Nottinghamshire, has a first-class emergency service which is being interfered with. That is costing a lot of money and we are not getting very far in finding a solution. It could cost lives—indeed, it may have cost lives in the past.

It is my responsibility to bring the matter here, and to hear the Minister's replies from his Department. I hope that we can overcome the problem for the people who require emergency services and do away with this sort of interference, in the interests of all concerned.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Mr. John Butcher)

I shall accept the guidance of the hon. Member for Ashfield (Mr. Haynes) and not go into the technical details of the phenomena which are causing any distortion of radio signals.

I fully understand the hon. Gentleman's concern about the problems caused to the emergency services in his constituency, and in the Nottingham area. The hon. Gentleman has done the House a great service. The debate gives us the chance to re-assert the fact that the mass of CB radio users are responsible people but that there is an irresponsible minority which, shall we say, has a less than agreeable attitude to life and has perhaps used radios in a way that may inadvertently have caused serious problems for the emergency services.

Interference to the radio communications of the emergency services, from whatever source, is a very serious matter. The RIS, which is currently operated by British Telecom, will be transferred to the DTI on 7 August, with an option for the employees to decide between that date and 2 October whether to become DTI employees. With that in mind the Department has a great interest, in that we shall have a total responsibility for the operation of RIS. The hon. Gentleman's remarks are timely. If the hon. Gentleman finds that I am somewhat 614 vague when trying to explain some of the difficulties in Nottinghamshire, it is only because we are in a delicate position as the transfer of control is about to be effected. Before August, total control cannot be exercised by my Department.

It is important to bear in mind that in the area of Nottinghamshire over which RIS operates, the total complement of staff has been reduced, for one reason or another, from four to one, through early retirement or retirement of past employees on compassionate grounds.

It is right that I should send a full copy of the report of tonight's debate to BT, and ask it in the light of the 25 per cent. staff coverage whether they will take the hon. Gentleman's remarks as seriously as I have done, and to find some way in the short term of addressing the problem caused to the emergency services in his area.

When the RIS is within the ambit of my Department after the transfer we shall see what we can do to address the priorities. We shall certainly put the problem of interference to emergency services as a top priority for the work of whoever will sponsor and administer the Department.

It is with those observations in mind that I endorse what the hon,. Gentleman has said. Before I resume my seat, I offer him the reassurance that under the new Telecommunications Act for the first time we shall have powers to confiscate illegal equiptment—radios, aerials not to specification, boosters used unfairly, AM radios, and so on. We shall be able to take the equipment away as evidence, which we cannot do at the moment. The Government are helping with those powers. We believe that we should focus on the more serious aspects of interference caused by CB. In particular, the problem that the hon. Gentleman has in his area will be treated with the highest priority.