§ 4. Mr. Gristasked the Secretary of State for Wales what is his latest assessment of the effects of the miners' strike on the economy of South Wales.
§ 7. Mr. Ray Powellasked the Secretary of State for Wales what discussions he has had with the chairman of the National Coal Board regarding the effect of the miners' strike on the industrial and commercial economy in Wales.
§ 10. Mr. Raffanasked the Secretary of State for Wales if, when he next meets the chairman of the Welsh Confederation of British Industry, if he will discuss the effects of the miners' strike on the Welsh economy.
§ 11. Sir Raymond Gowerasked the Secretary of State for Wales what is his latest assessment of the effects of the coal strike on the Welsh economy and on industrial production in the Principality; and if he will make a statement.
§ 19. Mr. Bestasked the Secretary of State for Wales what is his latest assessment of the effect of the coal miners' strike on the steel industry in Wales.
§ Mr. Nicholas EdwardsWhile reports indicate that there is no widespread impact on Welsh industry generally and the British Steel Corporation is continuing to take steps to ensure that steel production is maintained, those in employment in Wales will recognise the threat to jobs that a continuation of this damaging strike entails.
§ Mr. PowellOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. SpeakerI shall take it now, exceptionally.
§ Mr. PowellI tabled question No. 7, and I object to it being couple with question No. 4 when it is not directly related to it. My question asks the Secretary of State if he has met the chairman of the National Coal Board.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Gentleman knows that I have no responsibility for the way in which Ministers group questions. It is not a matter for me.
§ Mr. PowellFurther to that point or order—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I have nothing more to say.
§ Mr. Powellrose—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. It is not a matter for me. It is a matter for the Minister.
§ Mr. GristDoes my right hon. Friend agree that it is apparent that the only people likely to gain from this senseless strike are oil tanker crews and nuclear power constructors, and that the worst losers will be those engaged in the coal and coal-associated industries?
§ Mr. EdwardsAll these questions are about the effect of the strike on the economy of Wales. I agree that the strike can do nothing but damage to jobs in other industries and people not directly affected by it. It is deplorable that a strike involving about 200,000 people in two industries should have such threatening consequences for so very many more in a host of other industries.
§ Mr. PowellI realise now why the Secretary of State wanted to group my question with these others. It is clear that he has not yet met the chairman of the National Coal Board. For five months now I have been asking him when he intends to meet the chairman. I wonder whether he was 7 invited to the senior Cabinet meetings today to discuss the strike. The impact of the strike on Wales, especially when it comes to 120 or 130 lorries travelling from Port Talbot to Llanwern and the danger that they cause in the middle lane of the motorway when other motorists are trying to leave the motorway is such that it is time that the Secretary of State took some action, went to the chairman of the National Coal Board and convinced him that the miners have won the strike. Why do they not get round a table and settle it, because there is only one matter in dispute?
§ Mr. EdwardsIt is quite clear that the miners have not won the strike. The Government are determined that violence and intimidation shall not triumph. I can tell the hon. Gentleman that I was present at the meetings this morning and that one of the matters discussed was that the windows of 32 of the lorries carrying coal from Port Talbot this morning were smashed by strikers. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will join me in condemning that disgraceful violence.
§ Mr. RaffanDoes my right hon. Friend agree that those miners on strike must realise that it is their industrial action that has driven up interest rates, that it is their industrial action that is damaging Welsh industry and that it is they who are destroying other Welsh people's jobs? Does he also agree that, by kow-towing to Scargill, Opposition Members are aiding and abetting this destruction of jobs and that they, too, are job wreckers?
§ Mr. EdwardsI agree entirely, and I hope that Opposition Members will heed the warnings of the chairman of the British Steel Corporation, who said that this strike threatened the whole recovery to which BSC employees had contributed so much.
§ Sir Raymond GowerIn view of the splendid achievements at Llanwern and Port Talbot, would it not be a great tragedy if what had been achieved was damaged by the long continuance of this strike? Is not the future progress of the steel works in South Wales of infinite importance to the coal mining industry in South Wales?
§ Mr. EdwardsMy hon. Friend is quite correct. The chairman of the BSC pointed out that there were 20 United Kingdom pits which could produce the qualities of coking coal needed in steel production. As he said, it seems an unbelievable policy deliberately to try to drive steel out of business when that would only cut the demand for coal permanently, leading to even greater damage to job prospects in the coal industry than the strike has caused already.
§ Mr. BestDoes my right hon. Friend agree that it is unforgivable that the Leader of the Opposition, a Welsh Member, should show such little concern for the great achievements of those in the steel industry at Port Talbot and Llanwern and should instead align himself with a demagogue, by losing his self control, ripping up a speech and showing greater concern for the job wreckers than for those who have achieved so much in the steel industry?
§ Mr. Ron DaviesOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I suspect that I know what the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr. Davies) is going to say and I should like to say it first. We do not want speeches at Question Time.
§ Mr. Ron DaviesI was not going to say that.
§ Mr. EdwardsI agree that it is deplorable that the Leader of the Opposition should apparently associate himself with a political strike which must be gravely damaging to jobs in industry generally.
§ Mr. FootDoes not the right hon. Gentleman understand that the Leader of the Opposition—together with every sensible person in this country—wants to see the dispute brought to an end under the proper procedures agreed under "Plan for Coal"? Does the right hon. Gentleman understand that his Government's breach of those procedures has led to the current serious situation? Before he rushes in with a reply, will he recall that he gave me some misleading replies three weeks ago and had to send me a letter of apology, which I received this morning? Apparently, we must go on educating him. We want a proper, negotiated settlement of the dispute, and the right hon. Gentleman ought to be doing something at least to try to achieve that.
§ Mr. EdwardsI confirm that I wrote to the right hon. Gentleman and apologised for the fact that when I referred to Labour Governments I had forgotten that his career as a Minister had been so remarkably brief. I had not appreciated how much he wished to dissociate himself from the record of Labour Governments since he was elected to the House.
The right hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that all Labour Governments have recognised that pits had to be closed if they could not produce an economic and beneficial product. That is what the strike is about: the determination of the NCB to run a sensible, profitable and economic industry and not have it destroyed for political reasons.
§ Mr. ColemanIf the Secretary of State and Conservative Members are so concerned about the health of the steel industry, why do they not put pressure on the Prime Minister to settle the coal dispute?
§ Mr. EdwardsI must make it clear that no one in the Government will put any pressure on the management of the NCB that would allow decisions about the future of that industry and the viability of pits to be dictated by a political demagogue or anyone else.
§ Mr. Ron DaviesIf, as a result of the damage being done to the Welsh economy by the mining and docks disputes, the Government declare a state of emergency, will the Secretary of State ensure that troops are not used against miners in south Wales?
§ Mr. EdwardsNo such decisions have been taken, but I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the Government will carry out their obligations to the country as a whole and will take whatever steps may be needed.
§ Mr. HarveyWill my right hon. Friend give the House an assurance that, in view of the extreme intimidation and distress undergone by so many moderate miners in the dispute, and in view of the enormous courage shown by those miners, the Government have no plans to try to persuade the NCB to bring the dispute to a speedy conclusion that negates the essential principles on which the board is standing?
§ Mr. EdwardsI confirm that that is exactly the position. It would be intolerable if the NCB's hands were tied when it had to decide whether pits had a future. It must not be bullied and bounced into that by inexcusable violence and intimidation.
§ Mr. Barry JonesRather than adopting a sneering, hard-line approach, the right hon. Gentleman should be encouraging the Prime Minister to effect conciliation. Is it not in the Government's power to resolve the dispute speedily and to ensure a successful outcome to the dispute in this week's talks?
§ Mr. EdwardsMr. Scargill has refused to discuss the inclusion of the word "beneficial" when considering whether a pit has a future. If we cannot discuss whether a pit has a "beneficial" future, we are hardly in a position to talk seriously about conciliation.