§ Q1. Mr. Alex Carlileasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 12 July.
§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.
§ Mr. CarlileWill the Prime Minister tell the House how much further she expects interest rates to rise before the pound becomes stabilised against the dollar? Will she also tell us what advice she would give to those in business whose investment plans have been scuppered by the stark collapse of her economic strategy?
§ The Prime MinisterMy right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has already said something about interest rates. It is very disappointing that they have had to go up. How long they will stay up depends on the industrial strikes that we are now experiencing. For the 17 weeks of the coal strike we managed to withstand increases in interest rates and hold them well below those of the United States, but, because of the industrial strikes, they have now had to go up.
1354 There is a danger that investment—particularly in small businesses—will be hit. That is one of the most worrying aspects. As for larger concerns, my right hon. Friend has already pointed out that profits are in good shape. Furthermore, the liquidity position of industries is good.
§ Mr. FairbairnWill my right hon. Friend take the opportunity, when Mr. Robert Mugabe visits Edinburgh shortly to receive an honorary degree of doctor of law, to remind him of the civilised characteristic of the law, of Scotland that no man may be detained without trial for more than 110 days? If he accepts the degree, should he not apply that doctrine in his own country?
§ The Prime MinisterMy hon. and learned Friend makes his point extremely well. I am sure that it will be heard in the appropriate quarters.
§ Mr. KinnockDoes the Prime Minister realise that the Chancellor of the Exchequer told the nation on television last night that nothing has gone wrong? Does she know that people in the money markets, the banks and the mortgage companies do not believe that? Does she believe it?
§ The Prime MinisterI think that if the right hon. Gentleman had listened to my previous reply he would have had the answer to that question. Perhaps he was not listening.
§ Mr. KinnockI was listening, and I have heard the right hon. Lady before. Despite the circumstances, she did today what she always does—blame everybody but herself. Is that not what is wrong with this Government and the reason for the rise in unemployment, the mortgage rate increases that are coming, the rises in interest rates, the falling pound and the personal difficulties which people face? When will the Prime Minister pay the price with her own job?
§ The Prime MinisterIf the right hon. Gentleman cares to examine some of the figures about which I have often spoken to him across this Box, he will see that gross domestic product is up 3 per cent. from a year ago, industrial output is up 3.5 per cent., investment is up 10 per cent., productivity per head is up 6 per cent., and profits are up about 25 per cent. I am sure that he will have been delighted to see a very good report this morning about how the steel industry is withstanding its problems. Those are the figures of an economy which basically is in good shape.
§ Mr. KinnockInterest rates have gone up 2 per cent., with no beneficial effect for the British economy.
§ The Prime MinisterI am well aware of what the right hon. Gentleman says. I remind him that it was the Labour Government who took Britain to the IMF and reduced it to the level of a debtor country. This Government have been paying back the debts incurred by the Labour Government, and we have nearly halved them.
§ Mr. BaldryWas not Sir Terence Beckett correct in saying last night that the chief cause of the latest increase in interest rates was external and that the country's underlying position is one of good, steady growth and low inflation? Is it not also somewhat sickening to witness the way in which the Labour party gloats whenever Britain runs into difficulty?
§ The Prime MinisterYes. When interest rates go up, it is bad news for Britain and bitterly disappointing. What is even more disappointing is that bad news for Britain is good news for the Labour party—or, at least, that is how it seems.
§ Dr. OwenHow can the Prime Minister come to the House on Tuesday, claim that the economy is in good shape and, perhaps even more important, that inflation is under control, and, two days later, brazenly defend a situation in which interest rates have risen, the pound has collapsed and we face the prospect of higher mortgage rates? Can the right hon. Lady tell us exactly when she thinks the economy is going to be in bad shape and what is likely to happen to inflation in nine months' time?
§ The Prime MinisterIf the right hon. Gentleman had listened, he would have heard why I said the economy is in good shape. I will repeat it. Compared with a year ago, GDP is up 3 per cent., industrial output is up 3.5 per cent., investment is up 10 per cent., inflation is steady, productivity per head is up 6 per cent., profits are up, and liquidity is good. The right hon. Gentleman was a member of a Labour Government who took this country to the IMF and made it a debtor country and doubled Britain's international debt. I am a member of the Government who have had to pay it back, and we have halved it.
§ Q2. Mr. Montgomeryasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 12 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave earlier.
§ Mr. MontgomeryAt some time during her busy day, will my right hon. Friend study the manifestos of the Labour and alliance parties? I note that the Labour party pledged to abolish a tier of local government and to set up unitory authorities and that the alliance pledged to destroy the metropolitan county councils and the Greater London council. Does my right hon. Friend not think it nauseating that those parties should try to make cheap political propaganda out of something that they pledged to do?
§ The Prime MinisterYes. I am aware of the two manifestos. The GLC is now responsible for only 9 per cent. of services in London and, under this Government, education will, for the first time, have a directly elected authority.
§ Mr. John FraserWhat will the Prime Minister do to protect the construction industry from the devastating effect of an increase in mortgage interest rates, which is likely to come about tomorrow, putting those rates about 8 per cent. above the level of inflation?
§ The Prime MinisterI agree with the hon. Gentleman that it is disappointing that interest rates have risen, and it is particularly disappointing that mortgage rates may go up. The Labour Government suffered from a similar phenomenon. The sooner industrial strikes are over, the quicker the interest rate will go down. I hope, therefore, that the Labour party will start supporting the 23.5 million people who are in work and working well, not the 200,000 who are on strike.
§ Q3. Mr. Andrew MacKayasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 12 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave earlier.
§ Mr. MacKayDoes my right hon. Friend not feel that it is unfortunate, to say the least, that certain Left-wing Labour-controlled authorities are irresponsibly squandering ratepayers' money by funding striking miners, especially when it takes taxpayers' money to protect those miners who wish to exercise their right in a free society to go to work?
§ The Prime MinisterWe pay for the coal industry in many ways. The taxpayer pays in heavy subsidies when the coal industry is running, but the taxpayer and the ratepayer pay when the coal industry is on strike.
§ Mr. DixonWill the Prime Minister explain to people outside the House the justification for the legislation brought in by the Government which means that the dependants of the Yorkshire Ripper, who is in gaol for the protection of society, are cared for better by the Government than the dependants of a Yorkshire miner who is on strike in defence of his community? Will she also explain to the public why the wives and children of murderers are cared for better by the Government than the wives and children of strikers?
§ The Prime MinisterI have heard the answer given many times. The miner who is on strike has a very good job, should he choose to return to it.
§ Q4. Mr. Meadowcroftasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 12 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. MeadowcroftIs not the inexorable outcome of the recent trend in inflation exacerbated by yesterday's increase in interest rates? There is bound to be a rate of inflation of 7 per cent. by December. Given that the stated objective of the Government is a reduction in inflation, what credibility will they then have?
§ The Prime MinisterI should point out to the hon. Gentleman that inflation is at its lowest rate on an annual average for 15 years. That is far lower than the rate current during the life of the Labour Government, who his party supported and attempted to keep in office. The effect upon inflation will depend on how long interest rates have to stay up. I hope that that will not be for too long, but it will depend to some extent on how quickly industrial strikes are ended and people return to work. There are good jobs waiting. The irony is that workers who are among the most highly paid in Britain are on strike and damaging the prospects of the 23.5 million of those who are in work.
§ Mr. SternWill my right hon. Friend take a moment in the course of her day to remind Labour-controlled local authorities that, in the settlement arrived at in Liverpool this week, there is naught for their comfort in continuing to overspend?
§ The Prime MinisterYes. I note that the Liverpool city council decided to reduce its expenditure substantially by about £38 million, which is a reduction of 15 per cent. I note that that has been held up as a tremendous victory by the Opposition. I wonder what they would say if the Government brought in a reduction of 15 per cent. in public expenditure. Perhaps for the first time they would support us.
§ Mr. HardyIs the Prime Minister aware that over three quarters of the 1983 school leavers in the Rotherham 1357 metropolitan area are still without work and that those now leaving school face an even worse prospect? How can she tell those young people that the economy is in good shape?
§ The Prime MinisterBecause of the figures that I have given. As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, the numbers in work are going up, but I am afraid that that is not having a great effect on reducing the numbers on the unemployment register. For reasons which the hon. Gentleman will knows, over the past six years the working population has risen by 1 million and it will continue to rise because of the number of school leavers until about 1989. In the meantime, I point out to the hon. Gentleman that every school leaver is guaranteed a place on the youth training service. Indeed, there was a surplus of youth training service places over the numbers who were demanding them last year.
§ Q5. Mr. Thurnhamasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 12 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. ThurnhamWill my right hon. Friend assure law-abiding trade unionists that it is the law of Parliament which prevails, not that of comtemptuous kangaroo union courts?
§ The Prime MinisterYes. The law is made by a democratically elected Parliament, administered by a totally independent judiciary, and it should be upheld.
§ Mr. James LamondDoes the Prime Minister recall her rather anti-American outburst at the Dispatch Box on 8 December last year when she said that American financial policy was extremely damaging to our economy and that in future great danger would arise from it? Is this the point at which our economy has been extremely damaged and is this the great danger about which she was speaking?
§ The Prime MinisterAs the hon. Gentleman is well aware, we have managed for some time to keep our own interest rates well below those in the American markets. Right now they are just about the same. If the hon. Gentleman thinks that it is damaging to raise interest rates, he himself has made the point.
§ Q7. Mr. Kirkwoodasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 12 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave earlier.
§ Mr. KirkwoodAre there any circumstances in which the Prime Minister foresees herself authorising further public expenditure cuts in the autumn?
§ The Prime MinisterWe are at the time of the year when we look at public expenditure for the coming year. As I had hoped the hon. Gentleman would know, a 1358 statement was made when we last considered the matter. We intend to hold to the public expenditure totals already published.
§ Q8. Mr. Barronasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 12 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave earlier.
§ Mr. BarronI invite the Prime Minister to answer the question that was asked earlier and to tell the House why the families of striking miners have £15 a week deducted from any supplementary benefit that may be available to them when the families of people in gaol do not have that sum deducted.
§ The Prime MinisterThat is the law that was passed through this House by a democratically elected Government.