HC Deb 03 July 1984 vol 63 cc137-9
8. Mr. Knox

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will make a statement about the operation of the community programme.

Mr. Tom King

Since its introduction in October 1982 the community programme has proved a valuable scheme to help the long-term unemployed. Its progress has been much helped by the efforts of sponsors, who have organised projects to achieve the programme's objectives. We now have 116,000 long-term unemployed on the scheme.

Mr. Knox

Does my right hon. Friend have any plans to extend the community programme, which is very popular and which provides jobs?

Mr. King

The community programme is expanding and we are building up to the first target of 130,000 places. I am reviewing a number of schemes at this moment and I am aware of the popularity of the community programme.

Mr. Penhaligon

Is the Secretary of State aware of the difficulties which the £60 average wage is creating in running some of the courses? How much has the real purchasing power of that depreciated since the scheme was introduced? Why can it not be adjusted according to inflation?

Mr. King

The hon. Gentleman will know that there is a straight test between the level of the average wage or salary on the scheme and the number of people who can be accommodated on it. We are anxious to provide for the maximum number of people and therefore it is a question of trying to determine the right balance in that respect. I understand why he asks that question.

Mr. Colvin

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the community programme is being used to support the so-called TUC centres for the unemployed? While some of those are doing a constructive job in helping the unemployed, others are no more than centres for extreme Left-wing party political propaganda. What guidelines will he give the MSC on the use of the community programme for that purpose?

Mr. King

I know that the MSC has been concerned about some aspects of the earlier schemes in some of the centres that were set up. I understand that it has been having discussions with the TUC on that matter.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

Is the Secretary of State aware that in the county of Cumbria community programme places have been cut from 1,600 to 900 in two years and yet we made a valiant effort to make the scheme succeed within the county? Will he give us an assurance now that he will go into the Cabinet and argue with Treasury Ministers the need for an additional allocation next year to compensate for the loss in areas such as my own where this is the only form of new employment available?

Mr. King

I know that the hon. Gentleman has been having discussions with my hon. Friend the Minister of State on that matter. I know also that he will be fair and recognise that it was possible in the initial stages to give Cumbria an allocation higher than its percentage of long-term unemployment would have justified, because there. was a short delay in take-up in other places. I am sure that he would not argue for Cumbria to have an unfair allocation in relation to other counties, but I know why he raises the question.

Mr. Hirst

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the community programme has done excellent work, particularly in Scotland? In view of its worthwhile contribution to improving the environment, will he give an assurance that the scheme can be carried on and so provide employment for workers from the very depressed construction sector?

Mr. King

There is general support, which I note from comments made in the House, for the community programme as a means of helping the long-term unemployed. I do not propose to comment further at this moment, but I hope to have something to say before too long about the programme and its continuance.

Mr. Evans

Will the Secretary of State take the trouble to read the CBI report "The Fabric of the Nation", where he will see that Britain's industrial managers are calling for a sensible programme of public works which would, first, benefit Britain's infrastructure and, secondly, reduce long-term unemployment? Surely that would be the most intelligent community programme of all?

Mr. King

The hon. Gentleman raises that question as though there were not a very substantial programme of public works at the moment. We are carrying out a substantial programme of public works in terms of public expenditure on infrastructure and other areas consistent with what we think the country can afford and which does not damage the prospects for inflation and interest rates, thereby damaging employment prospects for the whole country. That is an issue which we must have very much in mind.