§ 3. Mr. Parryasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make representations to the Government of Indonesia concerning violations of human rights.
§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. Richard Luce)We deplore violations of human rights wherever they may occur. The Indonesian Government are fully aware of the concern felt in this country at reports of human rights violations, particularly in East Timor. We do not believe that direct, formal, representations on our part would be helpful.
§ Mr. ParryThe Minister will be aware that more than 200,000 people have been killed in East Timor since 1975, following the illegal occupation by Indonesia. Will he ensure that no further arms are supplied to Indonesia until a ceasefire occurs, and will the Government also not supply arms that may be used to repress human rights?
§ Mr. LuceThere is varying evidence about the level of alleged abuse of human rights, and I am not sure 901 whether it is right to put a precise figure on that. I know that the hon. Gentleman takes a close interest in this issue, and, as he well knows, human rights is a major factor in considering export licences for any arms. I assure him that we take that very fully into account when any applications affecting, Indonesia come before us.
§ Sir Bernard BraineIrrespective of the number of people who have been killed in East Timor, is my hon. Friend aware that there is concern among Conservative Members about the continued occupation of a country which has been denied self-determination, while at the same time we continue to supply arms to the Indonesian Government? What are the criteria for selling arms to such a country—whether or not it has friendly relations with the United Kingdom — without regard to what is happening about human rights?
§ Mr. LuceI know that my hon. Friend also takes a close interest in this issue and I have discussed it with him. This and previous British Governments have at the United Nations supported East Timor's right to self-determination, and I am glad to reaffirm that. Human rights is a serious factor when considering applications for arms exports. I assure my hon. Friend that we take that fully into account.
§ Mr. Tom ClarkeGiven the concern of Commonwealth countries such as Papua New Guinea and Singapore over Indonesia's current role, will the Minister give a categorical assurance that no Indonesian soldiers are training in this country?