HC Deb 27 February 1984 vol 55 cc2-3
3. Mr. Cohen

asked the Secretary of State for Transport which organisations have communicated with his Department about the provisions in the London Regional Transport Bill to (a) remove local control of London transport from the Greater London council, and (b) end the present Greater London council London-wide-scheme providing London pensioners with free travel; and whether the organisations are for or against the proposals.

The Minister of State, Department of Transport (Mrs. Lynda Chalker)

I have placed in the Library a list of 67 organisations that have sent comments on the Bill. As the hon. Member knows, the Government are ensuring that a uniform scheme of concessionary travel will continue, and neither the GLC nor hon. Members have any excuse for the continued scare campaign directed at elderly and disabled people.

Mr. Cohen

Does the Minister accept that her proposals to end local democratic control of London transport and to worsen the present arrangements for pensioners' travel are thoroughly unpopular with Londoners? Will she now alter or scrap those retrograde measures, in line with public opinion?

Mrs. Chalker

No, Sir. We are not worsening concessionary travel for pensioners. We are safeguarding the scheme so that it is uniform across the whole of London.

Mr. Dicks

Does my hon. Friend accept that my constituents and many other people in London are happy with the Government's reassurance? Does she agree that the anxiety caused by the Labour party and others is completely unnecessary?

Mrs. Chalker

Yes. We made it quite clear in the July White Paper that we would see a scheme continued. The London boroughs have made it clear that they agree with the scheme in principle. We are now safeguarding it in the Bill.

Mr. Flannery

Does the Minister accept that the Government's promises are somewhat empty when we are told that the Health Service and the trade unions are safe in their hands? Are not old people all over the country getting worried about their concessionary fares because they no longer trust the Government's promises?

Mrs. Chalker

There is no reason why elderly and disabled people throughout the country should be concerned about their concessionary fare schemes. We have made our position clear in the House. It is high time that the hon. Gentleman stopped stirring up the feelings of elderly and disabled people.

Mr. Greenway

Is my hon. Friend aware that no Labour Government, or a Labour Government supported by the Liberals, ever guaranteed pensioners' passes for Londoners? Is she further aware that ratepayers as well as the elderly are scandalised by the amount of money spent by the Greater London council—probably amounting to hundreds of thousands of pounds, maybe more — in trying to frighten them into believing that they will no longer have passes when the Bill to abolish the GLC is passed? The guarantee is welcome, and I thank my hon. Friend for it.

Mrs. Chalker

I am grateful to my hon. Friends for their welcome. We have also received welcomes from the London Boroughs Association and other London boroughs for the safeguarding of the scheme. It is high time that the GLC stopped wasting ratepayers' money on an unnecessary campaign, just frightening and terrifying the elderly.

Mr. Prescott

Does the Minister accept that the Conservatives' uniform scheme provides for less than the GLC's present scheme and is likely to cost the pensioners money? Indeed, the Minister is having to bring in compulsory powers to make sure that the Tory London boroughs implement it. Is she aware that Derbyshire county council, which covers Chesterfield, has introduced a scheme to extend concessionary fares to the unemployed? When the new Labour Member for Chesterfield comes to the House next week, will she listen to what he says about that?

Mrs. Chalker

I am not sure that that question has anything to do with Transport questions. Whatever the hon. Gentleman may say, the safeguarding of concessionary fares for pensioners, while there is obvious due regard to the cost to the ratepayers, is the right way to proceed, and is the way that most pensioners support.