HC Deb 21 February 1984 vol 54 cc684-5
7. Mr. Lofthouse

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what is the percentage planned reduction in mode B1 provision in the youth training scheme for next year.

The Minister of State, Department of Employment (Mr. Peter Morrison)

By the end of December 1983, only 54,300 of the 89,000 mode B1 places approved for this year were occupied. I am therefore satisfied that the reduced provision of 70,000 mode B1 places in 1984–85 should be more than sufficient to meet trainees' needs.

Mr. Lofthouse

Does not the cutback in mode B1 mean that there will be a serious lack of provision for the less able youngsters, who need more schemes and schemes of the highest grade that can be provided?

Mr. Morrison

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman can have heard my answer. Last year only 54,300 places were filled, and we are hoping to approve 70,000 places next year. In the Wakefield office area, covering Wakefield, Barnsley and Doncaster, 1,945 mode B1 places have been approved, and only 55 per cent. were occupied at the end of January. There is no need to worry about the trainees.

Mr. Bottomley

Can my hon. Friend assure me that those who are writing to me about places in the area of the borough of Greenwich have nothing to fear, and that all the youngsters who, it is believed, would profit from mode B1 places will be able to get places in the local area?

Mr. Morrison

Yes, I can assure my hon. Friend that that is so. Furthermore, for every unfilled place there is a cost of between £2,000 and perhaps £4,000. That money is being spent on bricks and mortar, not on relevant training for the trainees. It would be better if it were spent more effectively.

Mr. Meadowcroft

Does not the Government's arbitrary decision to cut back nationally on voluntary sector places fly in the face of the reality that we have to help many young people to cope with unemployment and that those schemes help them to cope better than private industry? Also, many young people find permanent jobs from the voluntary sector schemes.

Mr. Morrison

The hon. Gentleman cannot have heard my original response to the hon. Member for Pontefract and Castleford (Mr. Lofthouse). There are sufficient places this year, and planned for next year, for the estimated number of entrants into mode B1. I accept that voluntary organisations, local authorities and many others have played an important role, but it is a useless waste of money to over-provide for the sake of bricks and mortar.

Mr. Lawler

Will my hon. Friend outline his discussions with the probation service about safeguarding the number of people on schemes with which that service in involved?

Mr. Morrison

I discuss the matter with many interested bodies. It is important that, as the programme develops over the years, the probation service, like others, should have the right of access to me whenever it wishes to see me.

Mr. Sheerman

Is it not time that the Minister stopped misleading the House and owned up? The mode B1 provision throughout the country is being cut, and that means the voluntary schemes that have been extremely successful in helping the less able school leaver who would not get a mode A place. Will the Minister come clean and tell the House why good schemes which are fully occupied are being cut?

Mr. Morrison

I resent the hon. Gentleman's suggestion that I am misleading the House. I am not doing so. I have pointed out that at the end of December 54,300 mode B1 places had been filled. It seemed to me, in the circumstances, a bad use of taxpayers' money to go on providing places which would not be taken up next year. Surely money should go to proper training rather than to providing bricks and mortar.