HC Deb 04 December 1984 vol 69 cc164-5
12. Mr. Foster

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the age participation rate of 16 and 17-year-olds in non-advanced further education.

Sir Keith Joseph

Taking full-time and part-time day release courses together, 20 per cent. for 16-year-olds and 21 per cent. for 17-year-olds in England at January 1984. The Government's expenditure plans for 1985–86 assume some limited increase in the participation rate of 16 and 17-year-olds in future years.

Mr. Foster

Will the Secretary of State confirm that the participation rate of 16 to 19-year-olds in full-time education—taking further education and staying on at school together — has declined during the past 12 months? Will he confirm that the participation rate in the north of England is one of the worst in the country? Will the right hon. Gentleman introduce a scheme of educational maintenance allowance to ensure that poor families can gain proper access to full-time education?

Sir Keith Joseph

Although the hon. Gentleman's first proposition is correct, he did not mention the fact that there has been a dramatic increase in the number of 16 and 17-year-olds in youth training schemes. The activity of the 16 and 17-year-olds in YTS, employment and staying on in further education has increased substantially.

Mr. Sheerman

Will the Secretary of State admit that it would be better if young people stayed on at school or went into non-advanced further education on the basis of what was best for them, not on the basis of where they can get some money for the family budget? That matters very much in the north of England. Is not the right hon. Gentleman helping the north-south divide and the two nations concept by refusing to look at educational maintenance allowances?

Sir Keith Joseph

Once again, an hon. Member from the Opposition Front Bench is throwing away the taxpayers' money with complete indifference to the results that might emerge. Does the hon. Gentleman not yet realise that the deadweight cost of providing the sort of allowance that he has in mind would be far larger than what would reach the people whom he wants to help? The hon. Gentleman must realise that in the north of England pupils can judge what is in their own interests far better than he can and that many stay on in school because it is in their interests to do so, even though there is no universal allowance for them.

Mr. Meadowcroft

Will the Secretary of State accept that the extension of maintenance grants is crucial, otherwise there will be pressure on 16 and 17-year-olds to go into YTS where there is some recompense?

Sir Keith Joseph

The hon. Gentleman could not have heard the reply that I just gave, in which case will he take it away and read it twice?