HC Deb 04 April 1984 vol 57 cc956-8
12. Sir William van Straubenzee

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he proposes to announce the name of the new chairman of the Property Services Agency.

14. Mr. Haynes

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he will make a statement regarding the future chairmanship of the Property Services Agency.

Mr. Patrick Jenkin

I am considering that as a matter of urgency and will make an announcement as soon as possible.

Sir William van Straubenzee

Does that answer mean that in the meanwhile, pending that announcement, the reorganisation proposals particularly associated with the name of the previous chairman, affecting regional offices such as those in Reading, will be in abeyance?

Mr. Jenkin

When I announced the retirement, by mutual agreement, of Mr. Alfred, I made it clear that we were suspending the plans for reorganisation which, as my hon. Friend said, were closely associated with Mr. Alfred's position as chief executive. We have reached the conclusion that it would not be sensible at this stage to proceed along the lines that he advocated. However, as I said in answer to an earlier question, we are considering a number of issues about the role and future of the Property Services Agency as a matter of urgency. That factor will weigh with us in the choice of a new chief executive.

Mr. Haynes

Will the Secretary of State now admit that the appointment of Mr. Alfred was a total disaster? Is he aware that we in the Opposition think that the right hon. Gentleman is a total disaster? Could I help the Secretary of State by asking him whether he will ensure — [AN HON. MEMBER: "Wind up, Frank."] I am not going to wind up. Will the Secretary of State ensure that there is a full debate in the House on the Public Accounts Committee report concerning the PSA before he makes a new appointment?

Mr. Jenkin

I shall have to bear the slings and arrows that the hon. Gentleman directed at me with such fortitude as I can command. Both my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and I have publicly expressed our thanks to Mr. Alfred for the excellent work that he did when he was chief executive of the PSA. If the hon. Gentleman is referring to the recent report of the PAC, I should tell him that it has been debated. If he is referring to the report that is shortly to come, his question is a little premature.

Mr. Bill Walker

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Property Services Agency is a very large and complex organisation with enormous scope for things to go wrong —deliberately or otherwise—and that it will call for a chairman of remarkable calibre to bring it to order, so that we can have confidence that it is running properly?

Mr. Jenkin

I should like to take the opportunity of saying from the Dispatch Box that the PSA is an organisation in which a great many things go right and things are done to an extremely high standard. I should instance the opening earlier today of the Cabinet war rooms. If hon. Members can find the time to visit them, they will see that the work that the PSA can do, with the Imperial war museum, is of a very high standard indeed. But my hon. Friend is right; it is a very complex organisation and requires very high-quality management.

Mr. Hoyle

Will the Secretary of State please ensure that whoever is appointed is suitable — unlike Mr. Alfred? Will he also ensure that he is not paid the inflated salary of £50,000 that Mr. Alfred was paid, and that there is no engagement in a another tax fiddle by paying the salary into a private company?

Mr. Jenkin

The hon. Gentleman would be well advised not to use the words "tax fiddle" outside the House. Indeed, he should not use the privilege of this House to say such things inside the House. But we are considering the question of a successor to Mr. Alfred.

Mr. Straw

Why does the Secretary of State not admit what everybody outside the House knows very well—that Mr. Montague Alfred was dismissed from his £1,000-a-week job as a result of two wasted years in that appointment, his failure to root out inefficiency and corruption and his consequent undermining of the confidence and trust of the overwhelming majority of the staff, whose integrity and efficiency are not in question? Will the Secretary of State say whether he agrees with the evidence given to the Public Accounts Committee by his own officials or with that given by Mr. Alfred, since the two are contradictory? Could he also say whether he is now satisfied with the actions of the PSA to root out and eliminate fraud and corruption?

Mr. Jenkin

When I made the statement on 5 October, when we published the Wardale-Touche Ross report, I made it abundantly clear that the Government attached the highest priority to implementation of the recommendations of that report in order to—as the hon. Gentleman has said—root out the corruption that the report discussed. But I must make it abundantly clear—and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will accept this—that there is not the slightest suggestion and never has been a glimmer of suggestion that Mr. Alfred himself has had any connection with corruption.

Mr. Straw

indicated assent.

Mr. Jenkin

I am grateful to have that assurance because, in view of some of the things that have been said, it should be firmly on the record.