Youth Training Scheme (Hansard, 25 October 1983)

§ 7. Mr. Deakins
asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what are the financial implications for schools of the youth training scheme; and what additional resources he is providing for this purpose.

§ Sir Keith Joseph
I am not aware of any significant financial implications for schools in the provision currently being made by the youth training scheme.

§ Mr. Deakins
Is it not a fact that the youth training scheme—being fairly unpopular with young people, as the level of take-up shows so far—might lead to more pupils staying on into sixth forms at a time when educational provision in many local authorities, such as mine in Waltham Forest, is being severely cut? Is there not a case, in view of the relative failure of the youth training scheme, to offer options to all pupils who wish to leave school, for more educational resources for sixth forms in areas where there has not been a full take-up of YTS places?

§ Sir Keith Joseph
We shall have to take into account what is known of the choice of young people when the people concerned come to negotiate the terms for next year. As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, the terms under which provision is made now in education are based on a bargain struck not by my Department but by the further education colleges with representatives of the employers at the beginning of this year.

§ Mr. Hannam
Is my right hon. Friend aware that serious problems are being caused to many colleges of further education in Devon, including in my constituency, and throughout the country by the serious shortfall in funding YTS courses by the Manpower Services Commission? Will he exert pressure on the Secretary of State for Employment, to see whether this underfunding can be made good, otherwise local education authorities will be asked to make up a deficit which they will not be in a position to do?

§ Sir Keith Joseph
I take seriously what my hon. Friend says, but, as he rightly says, these matters are for the Secretary of State for Employment, who, I am sure, will read this exchange of views.

§ Mr. Eastham
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that questions were asked about inner city areas, especially where there was a high incidence of unemployment, when the Select Committee was taking evidence on the youth training scheme? It asked whether local authorities would suffer penalties if there were excess spending on education and the Select Committee was assured that there would be no exception made for them. Does he agree that that is disgraceful?

§ Sir Keith Joseph
No, I do not agree. The Government were approached and asked to exempt authorities from holdback to the extent that the overspending came from YTS spending implications. The Government did not recognise that there was justification for that exemption.

§ Mr. Haselhurst
Does my right hon. Friend agree that a valid implication for schools is the extent to which the curriculum might require amendment to prepare pupils better for the youth training scheme, which many of them might later join?

§ Sir Keith Joseph
I tend to agree in more general terms with my hon. Friend. There are initiatives to widen the curriculum for a number of pupils. In their initiation of what is called the lower attaining pupils scheme, the Government have provided extra money for pilot schemes for this purpose.

§ Mr. Foster
Does the right hon. Gentleman recall receiving a letter recently from a head teacher in the north of England, whose school had done especially well in developing what has been called the new sixth form? This head teacher's sixth form has been reduced by 25 per cent. recently as a result of the impact of the youth training scheme. He argued that the YTS was much more expensive than the courses that he was running in his school, much less suitable for his pupils, and a scheme that would produce a poorer record in placing them into work.

§ Sir Keith Joseph
These are matters of opinion. I can respect the teacher who has been quoted by the hon. Gentleman, without necessarily agreeing with all his conclusions. More of the age group concerned are staying on at school for a varying number of reasons.