HC Deb 25 October 1983 vol 47 cc132-3
11. Mr. Foulkes

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will give his assessment of the effect in the university sector of the Government's measures to reduce public expenditure.

Mr. Brooke

The reduction in provision for the universities following the Chancellor of the Exchequer's statement on 7 July did not require any cuts in grants to individual institutions, other than the Open university.

Mr. Foulkes

Is the Minister aware of the confusion that exists in the universities? First, they were fined for taking in too many students. They were then told to take in more students, but they were given no extra money to finance the greater intake. Who is responsible ultimately for planning in the university sector? Can the hon. Gentleman guarantee that there will not be yet another change in policy when the outcome of Viscount Whitelaw's "Star Chamber" is known?

Mr. Brooke

For 1984–85 the University Grants Committee has asked universities whether they will be able to take any further students. The response to the question will be received by 31 October. The UGC will then determine how the allocation of places should occur.

Mr. Forman

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government's policy towards the university sector has encouraged many universities to consider more favourably arrangements that will lead to beneficial co-operation with the private sector and industry? Is this not a good outcome of the Government's policy?

Mr. Brooke

I confirm what my hon. Friend has said.

Mr. Wilson

Does the Minister agree that one of the consequences of the see-saw policies in the university sector will be both cuts and increases next year, which will cause colleges to suffer next year? Does he agree that it is high time he accepted the right of every student with the correct academic qualifications to gain entry to a centre of higher education? Does he agree also that the consequent economic, social and education values would far surpass any limited problems that he might have in public expenditure terms.

Mr. Brooke

There has been no evidence up to now that anyone with appropriate qualifications has been denied access when he wished it, although I acknowledge that it is not necessarily to the course or institution of his choice. With regard to 1984–85, the committee of the National Advisery Body for Local Authority Higher Education met the Secretary of State to discuss its anxieties about the maintenance of access within the advanced further education pool. The Secretary of State has made available a further £20 million for its disposal.

Mr. Wilson

That is not true. It is a lie. On a point of order, Mr. Speaker—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. I normally take points of order after Question Time. Does it relate to this question?

Mr. Wilson

As the rector of the University of Dundee, may I put it to the House that the Minister has been telling lies?

Mr. Speaker

Order. That is not a point of order.

Mr. Skinner

He called him a liar.

Sir William van Straubenzee

Is not the encouraging development in this area, within the period covered by the question, the financial management of the UGC, which is not, I appreciate, the direct responsibility of the Government, and which has led to a decisive switch away from the arts and towards the applied sciences in the universities?

Mr. Brooke

My hon. Friend is perfectly correct in drawing the attention of the House to that development, which is continuing in the current year.