HC Deb 22 November 1983 vol 49 cc157-8
11. Mr. Madel

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what recent discussions he has had with the chairman of the Manpower Services Commission in relation to proposals that the education service should create a new programme to help the unemployed, and if he will make a statement.

Sir Keith Joseph

I have myself had no such discussions, but the educational and training needs of the adult unemployed have been a subject of consultation between the Department and officials of the Manpower Services Commission.

Mr. Madel

If the education service were to create a new scheme to help the unemployed, would not that mean extra responsibilities for colleges of further education and thus a need for more in-service training for staff? Will my right hon. Friend confirm that if local education authorities started spending on such a project the expenditure would be disregarded in calculating whether they were in a penalty zone?

Sir Keith Joseph

The answer to the first part of my hon. Friend's question is that we are seeking various ways to encourage educational provision for the unemployed. We provided a further £2 million of taxpayers' money for adult education for that purpose in the recent announcements. On the second part of the question, I cannot predict what would happen in relation to hold-back in future years, for which rate support grant arrangements have not been adumbrated.

Mr. Boyes

As children from working-class homes are least likely to remain at school and most likely to end up on YTS schemes in dead-end jobs—slave labour, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) describes it — would it not make more sense to give young people the same amount of money to stay at school as is given to those on YTS schemes?

Sir Keith Joseph

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman has taken into account all the complexities of increased public spending on the scale that he postulates. Even the Labour Front Bench, in suggesting such a scheme, was careful to ensure that the cost would be deducted from the fathers' and mothers' taxable income. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman has taken that into account. I remind him, too, that a large number of young people feel that it is in their own interests to stay at school although by so doing they forgo the money available through YTS.

Mr. Meadowcroft

Will the Secretary of State remove the potential conflict between education authorities and the Manpower Services Commission by encouraging the commission to allow more flexibility in schemes for the unemployed by giving more support to the voluntary sector?

Sir Keith Joseph

Conservatives are naturally sympathetic to the voluntary sector, but the hon. Gentleman's question is more a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment than for me.

Mr. Sheerman

Does the Secretary of State agree that everything emanating from the MSC, such as its recent NEDC memorandum, "Training Skills and Tomorrow's Need", implies devastating criticism of his Department's lack of action in providing education and training for the unemployed, especially the long-term unemployed?

Sir Keith Joseph

Both parties must share responsibility for the fact that, as we all acknowledge, training in this country has not been nearly so successful as we should all like.