§ Q1. Mr. Kenneth Carlisleasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 22 November.
§ The Lord Privy Seal and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. John Biffen)I have been asked to reply.
My right hon. Friend is attending the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in New Delhi.
§ Mr. Kenneth CarlisleI welcome my right hon. Friend to the Dispatch Box. Does he agree that the pressures for public expenditure to increase are now so great that the burden on the taxpayer and the public cannot be borne without considerable strife? Will he therefore undertake to initiate a wide-ranging and open debate to ascertain how we can afford all the many services which the public now demand?
§ Mr. BiffenI thank my hon. Friend for his initial comment. He is right. There are always strong pressures to increase public expenditure. Since the early 1960s, under successive Governments, public expenditure has risen from 33 per cent. of the GDP to nearly 43 per cent. today. This issue is now the subject of a public debate. I 162 very much welcome that and hope that it will stimulate serious contributions from many quarters — from the academic and business world as well as from Parliament.
§ Mr. KinnockOn the question of burdens, will the right hon. Gentleman tell the House whether the cuts to be made in benefits to young people living at home are part of the Government's family policy?
§ Mr. BiffenIt is not, but it clearly is a subject that can be much more profitably debated at length tomorrow.
§ Mr. KinnockCan the right hon. Gentleman, from his position of great responsibility and authority, say whether those cuts are intended to encourage young people to work, or not to work, or to stay at home, or not to slay at home, bearing in mind that the cut can be as much as £13.10 a week in the income of a family and a young person, which income is already very small?
§ Mr. BiffenI appreciate the point that the right hon. Gentleman makes. This argument can be much more sensibly deployed in the context of the full debate tomorrow.
§ Mr. PorterWill my right hon. Friend accept that there is a general feeling of nausea over the latest appalling massacre in Armagh? Will he please emphasise to his right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland the absolute necessity of reinforcing security measures in the Province?
§ Mr. BiffenI am sure that my hon. Friend speaks for the whole House when he talks of a feeling of revulsion at the shootings on Sunday. Meanwhile, as he will be aware, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland is at this moment in the Province and is doubtless consulting the appropriate authorities about how best to deal with the security situation.
§ Mr. WareingTo what extent was Government business distorted on Friday morning? How many Ministers cancelled or curtailed their engagements? Does the right hon. Gentleman know about the briefing note, which I have in my possession, which was circulated to Conservative Members telling them how to respond at the end of the debate on the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons (Amendment) Bill?
Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that if he did not know of that note he is incompetent, and that if he did know he deceived the House? In either case, he should resign.
§ Mr. Biffenrose——
§ The SpeakerOrder. I think that the hon. Gentleman would wish to rephrase his comment that the Leader of the House knowingly decived the House.
§ Mr. WareingIn what way have I offended the House, Mr. Speaker? May I suggest that the Leader of the House misled the House?
§ Mr. BiffenThe events of Friday clearly excited a great deal of concern and emotion, which was understandable. It is not the first time that such matters have been debated on a Friday and Governments have subsequently been accused of employing a payroll vote.
I stand by what I said on Thursday. I am sure that the House would find it extraordinary if Government 163 Members were not advised about the contents of a Bill to which the responsible Minister had expressed Government opposition. That is a long-standing practice, transcending both parties and Parliaments.
§ Q2. Mr. Penhaligonasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 22 November.
§ Mr. BiffenI have been asked to reply.
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. PenhaligonWhen the Select Committee on Procedure is established, will the right hon. Gentleman consider introducing a pre-legislative stage, similar to the Special Standing Committees, so that hon. Members will have an opportunity, for a limited period, to seek advice and question witnesses?
§ Mr. BiffenWe already have something approximating to that procedure for certain legislation. I cannot designate the matters that might be referred to the proposed Select Committee. The House must make such decisions.
§ Mr. OnslowReverting to the events of Friday, will my right hon. Friend ignore the synthetic indignation and histrionics of Opposition Members and recognise that their eagerness to turn up and vote for measures that are wasteful and unworkable simply increases the determination of Conservative Members to vote against them?
§ Mr. BiffenThere is no doubt that any move to introduce contentious legislation, albeit in private Members' time, will provoke considerable opposition.
§ Rev. Martin SmythIs it the practice of chief constables in the United Kingdom to refuse to meet elected representatives of the people, or is that a custom that has grown up latterly in Northern Ireland?
§ Mr. BiffenI take note of the hon. Gentleman's comments. I shall refer his point to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister. Given the sensitive position in the Province, I must confine my remarks to that assurance.
§ Q3. Mr. Tim Smithasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 22 November.
§ Mr. BiffenI have been asked to reply.
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. SmithNow that the House has, for a second time, agreed to a timetable motion for the Telecommunications Bill, is not the case for a review of Standing Committee procedures beyond doubt? I accept that the House must decide what matters should be referred to the proposed Select Committee on Procedure, but will my right hon. Friend use his undoubted influence to ensure that such an important matter is bought to its attention?
§ Mr. BiffenThere is clearly a wide feeling in the House that that matter might be considered by the proposed Select Committee. However, as I have already said, that must be a matter for the House to decide.
§ Mr. NellistWill the right hon. Gentleman comment on material which emanated from the Department of Employment yesterday, which showed that had inflation since April 1978 been taken into account in raising the 164 allowances of those on the youth training scheme they would now be receiving £33.90, and that had the value of average earnings been taken into account they would now be receiving £37.60? Taken with the question from my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition, does that not show that there is a deliberate Government campaign to cheapen the value of labour of young people, both unemployed and in work?
§ Mr. BiffenThat question touches upon all the wider and interrelated issues that will be debated tomorrow. Without being struck down with undue humility, I do not think that it is a topic with which I can deal adequately.
§ Q4. Mr. Nichollsasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 22 November.
§ Mr. BiffenI have been asked to reply.
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. NichollsHas my right hon. Friend seen reports in the press that certain National Health Service officials have taken early retirement, pocketed the money and then been re-hired? Does he agree that that is reprehensible and must be stopped, and shows that the Government are right to look closely at the way in which the NHS is spending its money?
§ Mr. BiffenI would not immediately assume that the press reports are accurate. However, there are many areas in which we could secure better value for money within an operation on so grand a scale as the NHS. We deceive ourselves if we think that that is not so.
§ Mrs. Renée ShortWhen the Prime Minister returns, will the right hon. Gentleman draw to her attention—as a former Secretary of State for Education and Science—the matter raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, North (Mr. Winnick), supported by the hon. Member for Staffordshire, South (Mr. Cormack), and to which I have received a written reply, about the closure of the West Midlands college of higher education? Will he specifically ask the right hon. Lady to study the alternatives for the students who rely on that college? She will find that there are no alternatives. What are those students supposed to do?
§ Mr. BiffenI shall undertake the representations requested of me.
§ Mrs. Renée ShortI thank the right hon. Gentleman.
§ Mr. BiffenI have been asked to reply.
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. AltonIn thanking the Leader of the House for that helpful reply, may I take this opportunity to draw his attention to the unemployment rate in parts of central Liverpool, where more than 45 per cent. of the people are out of work, and to the fact that throughout the whole of the city of Liverpool one in five people are unemployed? What will the Government do about that?
§ Mr. BiffenGovernment aid to the Merseyside area stands at more than £250 million, which is a demonstration of our commitment to that area. The other central factor that can assist the regeneration of Merseyside is a recovery 165 of the economy generally. That recovery is now in its initial stages. If we persist with our policy, it will come to fruition.
§ Mr. Andrew MacKayDid my right hon. Friend read with pleasure and partisan delight today's announcement that Mr. Tony Benn will be throwing his hat into the ring for the Labour nomination at Chesterfield?
§ Mr. BiffenAs my answers have been somewhat elliptical up to now, I must tell my hon. Friend that there is no ministerial responsibility for that matter.
§ Q9. Mr. Barronasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 22 November.
§ Mr. BiffenI have been asked to reply.
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. BarronWhen the right hon. Gentleman next sees the Prime Minister, will he ask her to consider, with the Secretary of State for Energy, whether, in view of the traumatic period through which it is passing, the British coal mining industry should be subsidised to the same level as British agriculture?
§ Mr. BiffenThe hon. Gentleman is right to infer that there is a considerable Government investment programme in the coal industry, which is testimony to our commitment to coal as part of the range of fuels available to our national economy.
§ Mr. DykesFurther to the earlier exchange, will my right hon. Friend also discuss with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland the tragically negative move by the Official Unionist party in leaving the Assembly? However horrific the incident may have been, it would be wrong for the Official Unionists to undermine the Assembly by staying away. Are they thinking again, and is it possible that they will return?
§ Mr. BiffenWhatever one's views about the membership of the Assembly for which the Government and the House voted, in view of the current circumstances of the Province and the immediate reaction to the deaths on Sunday, there is as much of a role for reticence as there is for offering advice to the Official Unionist party.