HC Deb 09 November 1983 vol 48 cc287-9
2. Mr. Bell

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what was discussed on the Minister of State's recent visit to Jordan, Egypt and Israel.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. Richard Luce)

I returned yesterday from a visit to Israel, Jordan and Egypt. I met Mr. Shamir, King Hussein and President Mubarak and other leaders in all three countries and in the occupied territories. My discussions covered a wide range of topics, above all the situation in the middle east and our bilateral relations.

Mr. Bell

Did those Governments have the impression that we were following United States policy, or European policy, in the Middle East? If they had the impression that we were following American policy, with all its twists, turns and contortions, what did the Minister do to disabuse them?

Mr. Luce

I am resolutely following a British policy. In my discussions I was concerned to assess how the various parties felt that we could best give renewed vigour to make progress in the Arab-Israeli dispute and the Lebanese problem and to learn how this country could be most constructive. I believe that the discussions were most useful.

Mr. Walters

Does my hon. Friend agree that the situation in the middle east is so dangerous that no short-term measures are adequate? If so, does he accept that the time has come to try to sponsor a meeting to discuss a comprehensive long-term settlement based on the principle of the Venice declaration?

Mr. Luce

I agree about the great dangers of the situation in the Middle East. I believe that the Arab-Israeli problem is stagnating. Stagnation breeds despair and despair breeds violence. Therefore, there are great dangers in the long term not just for the Israelis but for the Arab countries and, above all, for the Palestinians. Both Israel and the Palestinians have so much at stake that it is important for us, so far as possible in conjunction with our European partners and with the other parties to the dispute in the middle east, to do all that we positively can to help.

Mr. Janner

Did the Minister and the three leaders that he met agree that, unless and until Syria is prepared to leave the Lebanon, there is no hope for peace in that country? Did he discuss the prospects of Syria agreeing to leave in the same way as Israel has agreed to go and the United States, France and Britain would be only too delighted to go?

Mr. Luce

I discussed the problems of the Lebanon with all the parties. I must strongly restate that there is no shadow of doubt but that for peace and stability in the Lebanon it is essential that all forces withdraw. The Israeli Government gave an assurance that it was their priority to do that. I hope that they will fulfil that obligation and withdraw as soon as possible. However, the view of all contributors to the multinational force is that it is essential for all forces to withdraw from the Lebanon as soon as possible.

Mr. Nelson

Did my hon. Friend's discussions with King Hussein lead him to the view that the prospects for progress on the West Bank issue have deteriorated in recent months? If so, does he agree that the subjection of the PLO by the Syrian Government effectively revokes the Rabat agreement so that the way is now much clearer for King Hussein to play a more active and positive role in finding a solution to that vexed and continuing problem?

Mr. Luce

I sensed considerable despair in Jordan and elsewhere about the present stagnation in the middle east. We all noted the violence taking place between Syria and elements of the PLO. We acknowledge that the position is uncertain, and we do not know what will be the result. Above all, we agreed that, in addition to the important consideration of the security of Israel, a primary consideration is the position of the Palestinians, their future and their right to self-determination.

Mr. Healey

I congratulate the Minister on his answer to the first supplementary question on this topic. I hope that it will inspire Government policy from now on. I also congratulate the hon. Member for Chichester (Mr. Nelson) on reciting a planted question with brilliant aplomb.

Did the Minister protest to the Israeli Government about their refusal to let him meet representatives of the Arab majority on the West Bank, and does he still maintain that self-determination for the Palestine population is an essential element in any possible solution to the middle east problem?

Mr. Luce

During my visit to Israel and the West Bank, I had a most useful dialogue with the leaders of the Israeli Government. I attach the highest importance to routine dialogue at ministerial level.

If the Government are to contribute, however modestly, to middle east affairs, it is important to know the views of the people on the West Bank, as well as the views of the people in Israel itself. It was therefore a matter of regret that some—only some—of the leaders were not able to see me. I can only say that I regard it as singularly important in a country as strongly committed to democracy as Israel that every one should have the right to talk to one another in these circumstances.

I reaffirm that we are firmly committed not only to the Venice declaration and to the first principle of the right to security of the state of Israel, but to the right to self-determination of the Palestinian people.