§ 8. Mr. Wareingasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he next expects to make plans to meet the ambassador of Indonesia to discuss relations with that country.
§ Mr. LuceOur relations with Indonesia are good. I have no plans at present to meet the ambassador.
§ Mr. WareingIn view of the genocide, torture and repression being perpetrated on the people of East Timor by the Indonesian armed forces, would it not be more appropriate for the Foreign Secretary to call in the ambassador, tell him that the Government have no intention of delivering the five Hawk aircraft, which can be used in a ground-attack role, and that we shall not abstain next time there is a proposal in the United Nations for self-determination for the people of East Timor?
§ Mr. LuceThe British Government do not recognise and have not recognised the annexation of East Timor. The hon. Gentleman has used language that implies a wide degree of violence and repression in East Timor. We have taken some soundings on this, and although it is difficult to get accurate information, we do not believe from the evidence that the problem is on the scale that he is suggesting. The hon. Gentleman should remember that the Governor of East Timor has suggested that, while the ceasefire has broken down and there is some violence, essentially order has been restored. As to the sale of defence equipment, at all times when we decide whether to grant an export licence we have uppermost in our minds whether the equipment will be used for the abuse of human rights. That is the factor of predominant concern to us.