HC Deb 08 November 1983 vol 48 cc133-4
5. Mr. John Townend

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he has any further proposals for disbanding wages councils.

Mr. Tom King

Our obligations under International Labour Convention 26 preclude the abolition of the wages council system before June 1986. All options will be considered when the Government are free to act.

Mr. Townend

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it seems a little strange that a Government who have a basic belief in the operation of the free market should retain wages councils, which restrict the free working of the labour market, prevent people from pricing themselves back into work and destroy jobs for young people? In view of the difficulties over the International Labour Organisation, will my right hon. Friend assure us that the Government will seriously consider abolishing such bodies within the lifetime of this Parliament?

Mr. King

I am certainly aware of my hon. Friend's strong feelings on this issue. I am also aware of both sides of the argument about wages councils. It is obviously of concern to the Government if our initiatives to help young people to find jobs are sometimes frustrated by apparently higher settlements on the part of wages councils than might be considered reasonable in the circumstances. That is why I have said we shall consider all the options.

Mr. Ashley

Is it not true that the Government are trying to make Britain more competitive overseas by forcing low-paid workers to accept even lower wages? Instead of discriminating against such workers, why do not the Government restore exchange controls so that everyone — and not only the poor — can share the burden?

Mr. King

I regret that I could not quite follow the trend of the right hon. Gentleman's question. I am not sure how his suggestion would help the matter.

The problem is serious. We want to ensure the best opportunities for youngsters to find jobs. I hope that the House will consider the issue objectively, and not from a prejudiced position.

Mr. Budgen

At the general election, did not the Conservative party promise to ensure that wages councils would not reduce job opportunities by obliging employees to charge unrealistic wages, or employers to offer them? Would not the only way to honour that promise be immediately to abolish those councils?

Mr. Hardy

Bring back slavery.

Mr. King

My hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Mr. Budgen) would not wish the Government to step aside from their treaty or other obligations in international affairs. I can only repeat the answer that I gave.

My hon. Friend is aware that the wages councils are independent bodies and, therefore, are capable of reaching their own conclusions. As recent events have shown, the Government are not always happy with their determinations. I repeat that the Government will consider all the options when they are free to act.

Mr. Penhaligon

Although there may be some argument for wages councils reform among younger workers, is there not also an overwhelming argument that wages councils provide the basic principle of protection for one of the most vulnerable sections of our society?

Mr. King

I am concerned about the point raised by the hon. Gentleman. However, I also noticed the quotation from Winston Churchill in the letter column of The Times this week.

Mr. John Evans

Will the Minister confirm that the humanitarian principle involved in the establishment of wages councils was the protection of groups of workers who could not organise collectively to defend themselves? Notwithstanding the mean and petty campaign by some of the Minister's hon. Friends, will he admit that nothing has changed and that some workers still need the protection of wages councils? Does he accept that the real problem is to enforce wages councils' awards?

Mr. King

I understand the arguments, some of which must be taken into account when considering the options and the problems that must be reconciled.