Prisons (Overcrowding) (Hansard, 2 November 1983)

§ 8. Mr. McKelvey
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he is taking to deal with overcrowding in Scottish prisons.

§ Mr. Ancram
Significant overcrowding in Scottish prisons is currently confined to Edinburgh and Barlinnie prisons and to Longriggend remand unit. We are undertaking a substantial capital building programme to provide additional inmate places.

§ Mr. McKelvey
Will the Minister accept my congratulations on the fact that he has faced a problem which his predecessor denied ever existed? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in February 1983 Edinburgh prison housed 795 prisoners, although it has a registered capacity for 550 prisoners? It meant that 156 prisoners had to be housed three to a cell. Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that that is scandalous? Does he accept that the building programme alone will not reduce such overcrowding and that something must be done in the immediate future to alleviate the problem?

§ Mr. Ancram
I find the hon. Gentleman's remarks about my predecessor rather surprising, because when he took office the capital programme for prisons was under £1 million. It is now £5.8 million and will increase to £10 million over the next three years. In Edinburgh the overcrowding is in part due, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman knows, to the closure of a hall with 80 places while it is being reroofed. Once the work and the other capital programmes of phase 2 in Greenock and Shotts are completed, a large amount of the overcrowding will have been dealt with.

§ Mr. Fairbairn
Instead of sending to prison, including Saughton prison, those who fail to pay fines, would it not be wiser to introduce alternative methods of sentence or service for the short-term and not serious prisoners who represent approximately 50 per cent. of the daily prison population, to avoid the pointlessness and expense of sending them to prison at all?

§ Mr. Ancram
I agree with my hon. and learned Friend that we must continually look for alternatives to imprisonment, particularly for minor crimes. The use of community service has increased greatly over the past few years, from fewer than 500 in 1980 to about 1,900 last year. With regard to fine defaulters, we have been conducting an experiment in improved fines enforcement at two Scottish courts.

§ Dr. Godman
Will the Minister make a detailed statement on the use of Her Majesty's prison, Greenock and say when is it likely to be reopened?

§ Mr. Ancram
The redevelopment of Greenock prison is programmed for completion by the end of 1984 and, as the hon. Gentleman knows, will provide 180 additional places.

§ Mr. McQuarrie
When will the £1 million development at Peterhead prison be completed? In view of the recent incidents at the prison, does my hon. Friend intend to give further money for development for easier segregation of inmates?

§ Mr. Ancram
The development at Peterhead is continuing and will move ahead as fast as it can. Once it has been completed it will not only serve Peterhead prison better but will reduce some of the overcrowding at Barlinnie, which has been caused by one hall at Peterhead being out of Commission.

§ Mr. O'Neill
Will the Minister give an assurance that when these additional places are ready he will not use that as an opportunity to sustain overcrowding by adopting the sentencing policy which his colleague the Home Secretary appears to think is necessary to appease the vultures at the Tory conference?

§ Mr. Ancram
That question is typical of the hon. Gentleman. The purpose of my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary's announcement was to create a deterrent that would keep people out of prison. It is the intention of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and myself to pursue the fight against crime as much by preventing people from indulging in criminal activities as by punishing them for doing so.