HC Deb 02 November 1983 vol 47 c865
11. Mrs. McCurley

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is satisfied that the administrative and financial demarcation between central and local government in Scotland provides adequately for the care of the frail elderly.

Mr. John MacKay

My right hon. Friend is satisfied that the present demarcation line between the responsibilities of central and local government is appropriate. We encourage health boards and local authorities to co-operate closely through joint liaison committees and other means, and we are reviewing the effectiveness of these arrangements.

Mrs. McCurley

Does my hon. Friend agree that there appears to be a failure on the part of some joint liaison committees of local authorities and health boards in Scotland to come to properly agreed classifications of the elderly? Is he aware that, when they do not come to properly agreed classifications of the elderly, particularly the frail, confused elderly, the proper provision of low key accommodation for them is hindered?

Mr. MacKay

There are difficulties in the interface between local authorities and health boards, which is why we have encouraged liaison committees and why we encourage co-operation. We are always looking at the areas where co-operation is not quite what it should be. We are encouraging the health boards as much as we can and when I meet the social work people I encourage them. The problems of geriatric care are complex because people can be geriatric either through physical frailty or senile dementia or a combination of both. It is almost impossible to draw hard and fast definitions that would satisfy every case.

Mr. O'Neill

Regardless of the difficulties of drawing up hard and fast definitions, the Minister could do one thing, which he is obliged to do under the Mental Health (Amendment) (Scotland) Act 1983. He is capable of spending money and exercising his discretion to put financial backing behind the social work departments and the housing departments to ensure that this need is adequately met. So far he has not done so.

Mr. MacKay

In each rate support grant settlement since 1979 provision for social work has been increased. I think the hon. Gentleman was asking about the support financing scheme. This year we are spending £2.9 million on the scheme and, as he knows, we are undertaking a review of the scheme to see whether we can make it more attractive to local authorities so that we can make progress in the difficult area of care for the elderly.