§ 5. Mr. Chapmanasked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement about the number of Russian SS20 missiles presently targeted on western Europe, and the increase in Russian intermediate nuclear force weapons in recent years.
§ Mr. HeseltineThere are estimated to be 243 SS20s targeted on western Europe. The total number of intermediate nuclear force systems in the USSR facing Europe is about 4,000. Although the number of weapons systems has remained fairly constant for the past few years, the figure for actual warheads has shown a marked increase as older single warhead missiles are replaced by the SS20 with three warheads. In particular, the SS20s targeted on the West have increased from 80 in 1979 to 243 today.
§ Mr. ChapmanDoes my right hon. Friend agree that those who believe that the Soviet Union has been genuinely interested in multilateral nuclear disarmament during the past four years should bear in mind the inescapable fact that since NATO took the twin-track decision at the end of 1979 the number of SS20 missiles targeted on western Europe has trebled?
§ Mr. HeseltineThat is so. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for reinforcing what I said. We have tried for four years to bring the Soviet Union to a negotiating position that we can accept. We shall continue to take seriously any initiative or response that it makes.
§ Mr. DouglasWill the Secretary of State take the opportunity to answer the point made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey) yesterday on the targeting of Polaris missiles? Are we to understand that they are targeted according to SACEUR and that after the missiles are fired by us the boats will be at SACEUR's behest, not the missiles?
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I remind the hon. Gentleman that the question is about SS20s.
§ Mr. Michael McNair-WilsonIs my right hon. Friend aware of any withdrawal by the Soviet Union of nuclear warheads or missiles comparable with that which the United States has carried out in the past year or two?
§ Mr. HeseltineMy hon. Friend will be aware that if the deployment of cruise and Pershing II systems is carried through to its full we shall have reduced by about 2,400 the number of warheads in NATO Europe. That is the lowest level that will have been achieved in 20 years. There has been some reduction of some of the older Soviet systems, but nothing can measure up to what the NATO powers have undertaken.
§ Mr. SilkinAs the Secretary of State mentioned warheads in Europe a moment ago, as there is a rough equality in warheads between the Soviet Union and the NATO powers in Europe, and as for 23 years Western sea-based nuclear missiles were considered quite sufficient to deal with Russian land-based missiles, why is the change taking place?
§ Mr. HeseltineFor all the reasons that were apparent to the Labour Government during the discussions that took place in NATO before they lost office.
§ Mr. SilkinWill the Secretary of State now answer the question and forget his obsession with the Labour Government, because he always gets it wrong anyway? Will he tell us what is in his mind, if anything?
§ Mr. HeseltineWhat is in my mind is precisely what was in the mind of the Labour Government. The arguments deployed, perhaps most conspicuously by Helmut Schmidt, in the 1970s influenced the NATO Alliance and led along the track that is now well established.
§ Mr. SilkinIs it not a fact that Helmut Schmidt nowhere mentioned cruise missiles?
§ Mr. HeseltineI suggested that Helmut Schmidt pointed to the dangers of decoupling because there was no land-based American system. The cruise missile system filled that gap.