HC Deb 04 May 1983 vol 42 cc216-7
3. Mr. Norman Hogg

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much has so far been paid to housing authorities for remedial works against dampness; and if he will make a statement.

5. Mr. McKelvey

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will undertake a Scottish house condition survey to determine the extent of the problems of dampness and condensation.

The Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Allan Stewart)

The final allocations for 1983–84 enable all schemes in authorities' capital programmes to remedy dampness and condensation to be undertaken this year if authorities accord them priority, as I hope they will. In addition to the extra information now being collected from local authorities on dampness and condensation, the EC labour force survey has a special Scottish supplement on housing matters, which will provide very useful information at a national level. This door-to-door survey is now under way.

Mr. Hogg

Does the Minister recognise that his statement on 31 March about a multi-million pound allocation to fight dampness was grossly misleading? Does he agree that the promised £11 million is a deficit of £2.6 million when account is taken of the £13.6 million forfeited by 28 authorities under the housing expenditure limit system?

Mr. Stewart

It is true that £13 million has been forfeited by local authorities. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will be one of the first to urge them to change their policies. The £11.4 million figure is accurate and was made possible by the outstanding success of the Government's policy of selling council houses to sitting tenants.

Mr. McKelvey

Does the Minister accept that, as the survey which is being undertaken covers only one third of 1 per cent. of houses, or one house in 300, it is completely inadequate for the problems that have been unearthed by the Select Committee on Scottish Affairs in its investigations into dampness? Does he agree that, as a result of these revelations, we should have a social survey combined with a house condition survey of at least 5 per cent. of dwelling houses in Scotland?

Mr. Stewart

We await the conclusions of the Select Committee with interest. The information in this new survey is to supplement the substantial information that we are collecting from local authorities. The size of the sample and the number of questions in the survey are larger than in the English national house condition survey.

Mr. Ancram

Does my hon. Friend agree that there is an urgent need to redefine dampness to include condensation caused by structural defects which are not the responsibility of the tenant? Does he also agree that there is a basic injustice in requiring tenants to meet the cost of such condensation when they have no control over it?

Mr. Stewart

My hon. Friend raises an important point about the difference between dampness and condensation. Dampness is essentially caused by external factors, whether rising or penetrating dampness, whereas condensation is caused by a combination of factors. We look forward to the conclusions of the Select Committee on this point.

Mr. Dewar

Does the Minister accept and will he admit that the £11 million of which he is talking is not new money and that to pretend that it is amounts to fraudulent misrepresentation? Would not a better way to tackle this crisis be to give back some of the f100 million that has been clawed out of local authorities' capital allocations because of their failure to meet unreasonable rent targets over the past three years? Specifically, does the right hon. Gentleman stand by the extraordinary claim by the Scottish Office that the pitifully inadequate funding made available will allow Glasgow district council, for example, to cover in full the cost of carrying through in one year its entire programme for the eradication of dampness and condensation?

Mr. Stewart

The answer to the hon. Gentleman's final question is yes. That is the figure in Glasgow's capital programme and check list.

It is deplorable that local authorites should have forgone the £104 million in potential capital expenditure over the past two years and this year. However, the hon. Gentleman will be delighted to know that Glasgow will not suffer penalties in 1983–84. The £11.4 million is extra money made available because of rising council house sales receipts. It did not come out of thin air. Only the Labour party thinks that resources come out of thin air.