HC Deb 23 March 1983 vol 39 cc855-6
12. Mr. Bill Walker

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will ensure that statutory expenditure on emergency planning and on the raising and training of civil defence volunteers by county councils and the Greater London council as required under the proposed new civil defence regulations shall not be included in any penalty calculations in respect of overspending by counties and the Greater London council.

Mr. Giles Shaw

Local authorities' expenditure for comparison with their expenditure targets is calculated net of specific grants. I have had no representations which suggest that authorities' civil defence expenditure, net of specific grant, will lead to overspending.

Mr. Walker

I thank my hon. Friend for that helpful reply. Does he agree that the primary duty of local authorities should be to ensure that they have sufficient resources to deal with emergencies, including civil defence emergencies? Therefore, should we not encourage local authorities in every way to use this money?

Mr. Shaw

I agree with my hon. Friend. This is an important matter, in which the local communities would wish local authorities to be involved. He will realise that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary is responsible for the way in which local authorities discharge their duties in this respect.

Mr. Cryer

Does the Minister agree that there is no conceivable way in which local authorities could cope with the emergency that would arise from a nuclear war? Indeed, the dying would envy the dead after a nuclear war. Is it not true that, because local authorities are exercising their democratic right to opt out of the deployment of nuclear weapons, the Government are now trying to force local government employees to accept the Government's diktat?

Mr. Shaw

My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has been consulting local authority associations about the way in which they should discharge their commitment to ensure that their civil defence obligations are fully met. That must be an objective of local authorities, as, I trust, it is of all hon. Members.

Mr. Neil Thorne

Will my hon. Friend do his best to ensure that the country's population will benefit from the need to have an adequate civil defence provision? Will he do his best to correct some local authorities' reluctance to incur the 25 per cent. expenditure that is left to be borne by the rates?

Mr. Shaw

I agree with my hon. Friend that it is very important that local authorities should be encouraged to carry out such tasks. However, I must remind the House that substantial grants are available to ease the discharge of their duties.

Mr. R. C. Mitchell

Will the Minister remind hon. Members how many lives were saved during the second world war by our civil defence services?

Mr. Shaw

I take note of the hon. Gentleman's question, and he is right to remind us how important that was.