HC Deb 21 March 1983 vol 39 cc520-2
3. Mr. Clinton Davis

asked the Minister for Trade if he will make a statement on the current state of the merchant fleet and on the steps he proposes to take to halt its decline.

The Under-Secretary of State for Trade (Mr. Iain Sproat)

As I said in my reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeenshire, West (Sir R. Fairgrieve) on 18 March, I have concluded that there is no basis for major changes in the Government's shipping policy. Action to deal with the difficult conditions the merchant fleet has to face must come essentially from the industry itself, in particular from its own efforts to achieve greater international competitiveness.

Mr. Davis

Is the Minister aware that his inertia, characterised by the statement to which he has referred, has pulverised the British merchant fleet more effectively than Hitler's U-boats? Is the hon. Gentleman further aware that his refusal to give details of flagging out is characteristic of that inertia? Why cannot he give those details, and why does that flagging out occur? Why does not the Minister introduce the proposals to avert that disaster that were set out in the Merchant Shipping Bill in 1978, but which were scuttled by the Conservatives after the vote of no confidence in March 1979?

Mr. Sproat

The hon. Gentleman is long on invective and short on facts when he talks about Government inertia. He clearly has not bothered to read my answer of 14 February to my hon. Friend the Member for Tynemouth (Mr. Trotter)—

Mr. Davis

I have.

Mr. Sproat

—where I listed about a dozen things that we had done in the past year alone. Furthermore, the hon. Gentleman clearly has not read a whole series of parliamentary answers, including an answer given only last Friday, which detailed about a dozen more measures that I am taking to reduce the burdens imposed on the fleet. The way forward is for the United Kingdom's Merchant Navy to consider its high manning levels compared with its best European competitors and to cut them, and other crew costs, to make the fleet competitive.

Mr. McQuarrie

Does my hon. Friend know that it is very refreshing that he, as the Minister responsible, should come out strongly telling truths that should have been told a long time ago about what is needed in the Merchant Navy? Does my hon. Friend agree that shipowners and unions should discuss high manning levels and other high crew costs if the decline of the Merchant Navy is to be reversed?

Mr. Sproat

I certainly agree that the decline in the merchant fleet could be halted and reversed if both unions and management saw the truths as clearly as my hon. Friend. What my hon. Friend has said is, indeed, the truth and the sooner both management and unions accept it, the better for the industry.

Mr. Prescott

Does the Minister recognise that that statement will be received with considerable anger by seamen, particularly by those who have returned from the Falklands and who are now told that they must become redundant if they are to save their industry? Does the Minister realise that the price of the industry reducing its manning by 25 per cent. to the level of flag-of-convenience countries, as he is saying it must, is that those countries lose four times as many ships as Britain, which costs the lives of many seafarers, as the inquiry into the Union Star and the Penlee lifeboat now shows?

Mr. Sproat

None of us can know what the inquiry into the Penlee disaster shows, because it has not yet been concluded. However, we are talking not about comparing manning levels with flags-of-convenience ships but, for example, with Norwegian vessels, which are almost on all fours with ours. If the Norwegians can make cuts consistent with safety, so can we. Indeed, that must be done if the United Kingdom's fleet is to be competitive.

Sir John Biggs-Davison

Although I agree that the merchant fleet must become more competitive, is not the size of the merchant fleet important to our maritime defence? May we be assured that the Department of Trade is in touch with and in consonance with the Ministry of Defence?

Mr. Sproat

I gladly give my hon. Friend that assurance, just as I gladly pay tribute—as I have many times—to the way in which members of the Merchant Navy so gallantly conducted themselves during the Falklands war. That is precisely why my Department is playing its part on several committees, together with my right hon. and hon. Friends in the Ministry of Defence, to ensure that our defence requirements are maintained. At present, the Merchant Navy is fully capable of carrying out any wartime commitments that the Ministry of Defence foresees.

Mr. Woolmer

Is it not true that since the Conservative party came to office less than four years ago the number of merchant ships has fallen by 32 per cent., while tonnage has fallen by 36 per cent.? Does the Minister recall telling the House last November that the Government were determined not just to stand idly by as mere spectators of the sad scene of a massive decline in British merchant shipping? Is it not an outrage that the Minister's non-statement of policy should be leaked out in a written answer that took the form of a major statement on Friday? Will the Minister come before the House and give us an opportunity to discuss fully and forthrightly the decline of this island trading nation's merchant marine?

Mr. Sproat

It is sad that when one tries to help the House by putting out a statement in advance of Question Time precisely so that it can be discussed, one is criticised for trying to help the House. However, I shall continue to try to do that. As for any ludicrous charges of inertia, I have done more in 18 months to cut the regulatory burdens placed on the Merchant Navy than the Labour party did in five years when it was responsible for the industry.

Mr. Clinton Davis

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the wholly inadequate response from an inadequate Minister, I beg—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman knows that there is a formula to use if he wishes to raise the issue on the Adjournment, and references to other hon. Members are not included in it.

Mr. Davis

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I give notice that I intend to raise this matter on another occasion.